Mysterious Ride Vibration - need help brainstorming cause

[kekurutz]

2017 Model S 75D - 19" slipstreams

Yes, this is another thread with regards to ride vibration/steering wheel vibration. From all the other threads I've read, I feel my scenario is somewhat unique. Would appreciate any input. Background is as follows.

Description of what I am experiencing:

• When car sits idle for 12-24+ hours, upon the next ride, I experience a pretty strong vibration throughout the entire cabin once I hit 50mph. Steering wheel visibly vibrates. I get a bouncing/buffeting sound. The weird thing is that after no more than 5 miles of driving, this goes away. I'm not saying this is the issue, but it would feel/act as if the tires flat spot every time the car sits.
• After ~5 miles of driving:
  • I have persistent subtle vibration in the steering wheel at 50-55 mph (subtle = can feel the steering wheel vibrate, but cannot see it)
  • Persistent subtle vibration is also felt at ~75+ mph - I can feel this to a degree in the cabin as well - very subtle, but noticeable.

How this started, and troubleshooting conducted so far:

This all started when I had stock Goodyear tires replaced beginning of August '19 w/ Michelin MXM4. After install, immediately felt a vibration in the steering wheel on drive home around 50mph. (Car drove smooth as silk prior to the new wheels. ....Coincidence, or not?) ...Simply figured tires/wheels were not balanced properly.
Returned several times to installer over the course of one month and had the installer conduct the following:

• 2-3 rebalance on new MXM4s
• replace initial set of MXM4s with a second new set of MXM4s
• conducted a "ride match" (I assumed this to be a road force balance?) on the second set of MXM4s
• problems persisted, so replaced tires yet again with a brand new set of Goodyears

After all of the above, the issues persisted. The installer was awesome throughout this whole time and I felt they had done everything they could do, so I took my troubleshooting elsewhere.

Next step was to take the car to a different shop where I had the tires/wheels road force balanced. This helped to a degree, but was not completely satisfied.

At last, I determined it was time to take the car into Tesla. The problem here is that Tesla is way more than 5 miles away from my house, so the strong vibration was gone by the time I arrived. The car would've needed to sit for 12-24+ hours at Tesla for them to feel this. Beyond that, the persistent subtle vibration is subtle enough that it was masked by the uneven roads & freeway surrounding Tesla. So, all they could do was (1) an alignment, and (2) check for torque on all suspension and drivetrain components.

Fast forward to today. ...The issues persist. I'm at a loss. I feel that taking the car back to Tesla is just going to lead to them stating they cannot recreate, and the car comes home.

What I find odd about my situation is (1) the strong vibration that only lasts for up to 5 miles, coupled with (2) subtle vibration that feels like nothing more than out of balance tires/wheels (but that clearly has yet to be resolved with many rebalance attempts).

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any input/thoughts.

 

[Stach]

I have nearly the exact same scenario with my TM3 as well. Tesla paid for a road force balance that turned into 2 of them as the shop got a brand new balancer a few weeks later and gave me a freebie. Next, I drove it 2+hours to the nearest Tesla SC and multiple techs couldn't feel a thing but they did align the car, which again has helped some. It's hard to tell exactly what is causing it, but like you my car starts out vibrating, but it doesn't sound as bad as yours. I too feel that it's the tires and in my case I'm guessing that it's the acoustic foam inside the tire that's doing something funky. I just put on my X-Ice 3's today (on their own rims), but I haven't had a chance to drive it yet but I'm hopeful that my vibration will be gone. I will let you know what it feels like after I drive it within the next couple of days.

Do your tires happen to have acoustic foam as well?

 

[kekurutz]

Do your tires happen to have acoustic foam as well?

You know, that’s a good question.
My stock Goodyears obviously did, but I’m honestly not sure if the replacement Goodyears do or not. I’d have to research what on the sidewall would tell me that.

I have an appt with Tesla end of this month for another road force balance. I’ll ask them to unmount the tires from the wheels and see if there is foam, and if so if anything is awry.

 

[David.85D]

What’s the weather been like? I experience something similar in cold temps. I attribute it to “flat spots” on the tire that take a bit of warming up to smooth out. Doesn’t happen to me in warmer temps.

 

[Doc Brown]

What’s the weather been like? I experience something similar in cold temps. I attribute it to “flat spots” on the tire that take a bit of warming up to smooth out. Doesn’t happen to me in warmer temps.

This. If you only get it when it’s cold and for the first few miles - it’s likely flat spots on the tires. Once they roll a bit and warm up - the flat spots soften and the tire regains it’s shape. I’ve found that some tires are more prone to this condition then others - but I’ve had it on several cars.

so long as it stops after a while - you should be fine. Be sure to check your tire pressure. Low pressure will result in greater flat spots.

 

[Evoforce]

I have had slightly bent rims that caused this. I went through some of the same hoops. Once the tire was warmer, it allowed some cushion to feel it less. I had a sharp Tesla Tech that found/solved the problem.

 

[kekurutz]

What’s the weather been like? I experience something similar in cold temps. I attribute it to “flat spots” on the tire that take a bit of warming up to smooth out. Doesn’t happen to me in warmer temps.

This. If you only get it when it’s cold and for the first few miles - it’s likely flat spots on the tires. Once they roll a bit and warm up - the flat spots soften and the tire regains it’s shape. I’ve found that some tires are more prone to this condition then others - but I’ve had it on several cars.

so long as it stops after a while - you should be fine. Be sure to check your tire pressure. Low pressure will result in greater flat spots.

I live in SoCal, so we never get really cold. This has been ongoing since August as well, in the midst of summer, where this same type of thing was occurring.

I’ve had the car for just over 2 years now. Before this all started I would get flat spotting on the tires after the car would sit idle for ~5+ days, and I’d get the same exact type of vibration, which would quickly even out when driving.

Its just weird how I’m getting this vibration now with the car sitting for only 12-24 hours.

I don’t want to discount this idea though. Who knows - maybe I have compounding factors: Eg: Minor flat spotting + foam in tire not fully secured + slight imbalance in tires/wheels, or some combination of that....

 

[kekurutz]

I have had slightly bent rims that caused this. I went through some of the same hoops. Once the tire was warmer, it allowed some cushion to feel it less. I had a sharp Tesla Tech that found/solved the problem.

So in your case a Tesla tech nailed this down to a slightly bent wheel?

One thing I didn’t mention in my original post is that I recently bought a second set of 19” slipstreams with tires in case I have to go down this path. All of this is just such a hassle, so I’m leaving this as a last resort.

Shouldn’t a road force balance catch a bent wheel though. Ie: when the tire is on the roller I’d imagine it would produce some degree of hop that the road force balance machine would detect?

 

[Evoforce]

So in your case a Tesla tech nailed this down to a slightly bent wheel?

One thing I didn’t mention in my original post is that I recently bought a second set of 19” slipstreams with tires in case I have to go down this path. All of this is just such a hassle, so I’m leaving this as a last resort.

Shouldn’t a road force balance catch a bent wheel though. Ie: when the tire is on the roller I’d imagine it would produce some degree of hop that the road force balance machine would detect?

The next thing I would do is grab my jack and start swapping them out as the next test... 1 by 1.

 

[Big Toys]

MXM4, same here. Seems to be endemic to the tires. I've had really significant vibrations when I had new ones put on about 1 month ago, have been back twice, was going back a third time but just haven't done it. But, the vibes seem to have improved over the past week with more road time. I suspect flat or hard spots in the tire are loosening up, improving the ride. I'm gonna bring them back anyway, have them dismount and remount, then see what happens.

 

[kekurutz]

The next thing I would do is grab my jack and start swapping them out as the next test... 1 by 1.

Im going to wait until this next appointment with Tesla end of month. But if that still doesn’t resolve issue, agreed that this is next step!

 

[Doc Brown]

I live in SoCal, so we never get really cold. This has been ongoing since August as well, in the midst of summer, where this same type of thing was occurring.

I’ve had the car for just over 2 years now. Before this all started I would get flat spotting on the tires after the car would sit idle for ~5+ days, and I’d get the same exact type of vibration, which would quickly even out when driving.

Its just weird how I’m getting this vibration now with the car sitting for only 12-24 hours.

I don’t want to discount this idea though. Who knows - maybe I have compounding factors: Eg: Minor flat spotting + foam in tire not fully secured + slight imbalance in tires/wheels, or some combination of that....

I'm in NorCal and have this issue with my truck - even if it's just sitting overnight. It's happened with two different brands of tires. Can't explain it - it just happens. Yeah - we get colder up here - but I've still noticed it every now and again (although more when it's cold).

It would certainly seem plausible that several factors play into some vibrations people experience. I'd have to think the foam combined with other factors could cause balancing frustration . . . .

 

[Stach]

With 6-12" of snow coming this weekend, I finally swapped out my problematic MXM4's (with what sounds like flat spots, but I believe to be acoustic foam issues) out last night and put on my Michelin X-Ice XI3's (on their own 18" aero rims). I'm happy to report that the mild thump-thump, or wind buffeting sound is now completely gone. The X-Ice's definitely feel softer over bumps, in colder weather, and don't sound any louder at all. I'm very happy with them and we'll see how they drive once the snow starts.

 

[kekurutz]

With 6-12" of snow coming this weekend, I finally swapped out my problematic MXM4's (with what sounds like flat spots, but I believe to be acoustic foam issues) out last night and put on my Michelin X-Ice XI3's (on their own 18" aero rims). I'm happy to report that the mild thump-thump, or wind buffeting sound is now completely gone. The X-Ice's definitely feel softer over bumps, in colder weather, and don't sound any louder at all. I'm very happy with them and we'll see how they drive once the snow starts.

Glad to hear.
If my service visit end of this month with Tesla does no good, I’m going to go buy a jack and stands and swap out my existing wheels and tires with a second set of slipstreams + Goodyear’s I have on hand.

What type of jack and stands do you have?

 

[Stach]

What type of jack and stands do you have?

No jack stands here, just a low profile, 3 ton jack that lifts one side at a time so I can swap "2 wheels at a time", since I have another set of aero rims for the snow tires.

 

[Evoforce]

A regular 3 ton jack and hockey puck or cushion. Put car in "jack mode". Jack it up at the jack points. Just do one at a time in your situation and test to find the culprit.

 

[Mattluleci]

vibration around 75+ miles, all suspensions are changing cost around $4,250.

 

[Battpower]

I would check drive shaft couplings. I am not specifically familiar with Tesla's, but the constant velocity joints could settle when cold and change behaviour as they warm up.