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Nannypilot Killed the Autopilot Star

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Let me say first of all that I love Autopilot and I understand the reason for some of the nanny features, such as ensuring the driver is paying attention and keeping the hands on the steering wheel. I'm fine with all of that.

However, Autopilot should defer to the request of a driver paying attention with regards to the set speed, within reason. I feel like autopilot is increasingly made unusable around where I drive due to the draconian speed restrictions that don't allow me to drive at the speed of traffic.

I paid for FSD a while back when the the software was much less advanced than even V1 so I'm a big believer and supporter of the technology. It has been incredible to see the progress, especially with my recent upgrade to HW 3.0 but I wish they'd ease off with some of the drastic speed limit controls for Autopilot.

Now I'm not suggesting that they let the driver set the speed to 50mph on a road with a limit of 25mph but within reason, the driver needs to be able to set the desired speed limit to match the speed of traffic. The driver is ultimately responsible for the actions of the car and should be able to set the speed limit as needed to stay with traffic.

Case in point is a situation where a road that leads home has a speed limit of 25mph but for some stretches, the car thinks the limit is 15mph (faulty GPS speed limit) and it totally caught me by surprise when the car abruptly slowed down to 15 with traffic behind me when the speed of the majority of traffic along this road is 30-35 mph.

The incorrect GPS speed limits really exasperate this situation. Some roads that are 45mph, the car thinks it is 35 so I'm limited by speed when the speed of traffic is around 50 mph. I really hope these drastic speed limit restrictions are temporarily and not the beginning of Nannypilot killing Autopilot.

If Autopilot can trust the driver to keep the car safe at highway speeds and now on surface streets with traffic, pedestrians, and all sorts of obstacles, I feel Autopilot should similarly be able to trust the judgement of the driver to set the appropriate speed within reason as well. Especially on well marked straight roads.

If the car thinks the limit is 25mph on a straight well marked road, and the driver wants to set a speed of 33-35mph, it should defer to the driver.

As Autopilot and FSD progresses I hope they strike a reasonable balance with letting the driver guide the car to keep pace with the speed of traffic. I want to be able to use Autopilot again on the road home, as it is now unusable due to the speed restrictions.

Anyone else affected by the too low speed restrictions with some of the more recent Autopilot updates?
 
It's basically designed for highway use at this point, other roads have much more conservative options enabled that hamper its use. I end up using cruise control and steer for myself on the back roads since the speed limit isn't artificially dropped. I have to keep my hand on the wheel anyway, so not too much of a big deal, its mostly straight roads.
 
It's basically designed for highway use at this point, other roads have much more conservative options enabled that hamper its use. I end up using cruise control and steer for myself on the back roads since the speed limit isn't artificially dropped. I have to keep my hand on the wheel anyway, so not too much of a big deal, its mostly straight roads.

Unfortunately this is what I have begun doing as well.

The thing is before some of the recent updates, Autopilot with steering and speed control actually worked at the speed of traffic. I used to use Autopilot ALL THE TIME. Now there are many stretches along roads I travel where it is unusable as the speed restrictions cause people to tailgate me or cause dangerous situations for themselves, other drivers, and myself by trying to drive around me if I'm not driving the speed of traffic.

Maybe this is a east coat thing but if I stay at around 5-10 mph over the limit traffic just goes along smoothly and pretty much everyone leaves you alone. You drop down to the speed limit and it just invites all sorts of stressful behavior from other drivers.

After having paid for FSD, I'd really like to be able to use the lane keeping feature.

And this is not limited to just small roads either. A 4 lane divided road close to where I live also now has drastic speed limitations for Autopilot lane keeping. I used to be on Autopilot the whole way and now I never use Autopilot.

These restrictions have killed Autopilot for me. I use to use Autopilot like 90% of the time before some of the recent fancy updates and now I barely use it a third or quarter of the time because the speed restrictions have made lane keeping unusable when it wasn't the case before.
 
My coworker quit using AP because it did emergency breaking in the middle of a 3 lane road, hardest stop possible, with a truck behind him. He was able to hit the gas to get moving again, but he's sworn off AP.

There's a lot of risk to using these features, and personally, I've come to learn when it is OK to use, and when it isn't. If someone isn't paying attention, this can easily lull them into a false sense of security.
 
My coworker quit using AP because it did emergency breaking in the middle of a 3 lane road, hardest stop possible, with a truck behind him. He was able to hit the gas to get moving again, but he's sworn off AP.

There's a lot of risk to using these features, and personally, I've come to learn when it is OK to use, and when it isn't. If someone isn't paying attention, this can easily lull them into a false sense of security.
This afternoon, I had a strange AP issue. I was in the right lane of an Interstate highway. There was no reason for me to switch to the left lane, but AP kept asking me to confirm a lane change to the left lane. Traffic in the right lane was not slowing me down. I was eventually going to take a right exit, which showed on the AP screen, and yet, the car kept asking me to confirm a lane change to the left lane.
 
This afternoon, I had a strange AP issue. I was in the right lane of an Interstate highway. There was no reason for me to switch to the left lane, but AP kept asking me to confirm a lane change to the left lane. Traffic in the right lane was not slowing me down. I was eventually going to take a right exit, which showed on the AP screen, and yet, the car kept asking me to confirm a lane change to the left lane.

I have seen this behavior with the use of Navigate on Autopilot ON and Tesla just not having the most up-to-date maps. Often these lane changes are the result of Tesla navigation attempting to keep you on course because it thinks the lane is going to become exit-only or merge down or something similar.
 
I have seen this behavior with the use of Navigate on Autopilot ON and Tesla just not having the most up-to-date maps. Often these lane changes are the result of Tesla navigation attempting to keep you on course because it thinks the lane is going to become exit-only or merge down or something similar.

I feel we are likely 4-8 weeks away from getting speed limit recognition so this should help with some of the incorrect GPS speed limit issues. Still they need to let the driver set the desired speed limit within reason or at least have a way to override.

Maybe an option in Autopilot settings where you press a checkbox to acknowledge that you have chosen the option to set your desired speed limit (within reason) and accept responsibility for your actions.
 
I have seen this behavior with the use of Navigate on Autopilot ON and Tesla just not having the most up-to-date maps. Often these lane changes are the result of Tesla navigation attempting to keep you on course because it thinks the lane is going to become exit-only or merge down or something similar.
I've noticed that these lane changes happen when there is a very wide median. I believe the GPS appears to have some maximum distance for the overall highway width and if you are outside it, it tries to correct. This is particularly frequent in Kansas and Nebraska.
 
I feel we are likely 4-8 weeks away from getting speed limit recognition so this should help with some of the incorrect GPS speed limit issues. Still they need to let the driver set the desired speed limit within reason or at least have a way to override.

MobileEye who made the original autopilot has a patent on reading speed limit signs. Tesla loaths to pay patent fees for anything, which is why we don't have 3d backup camera, and speed limit recognition.

US20080137908A1 - Detecting and recognizing traffic signs - Google Patents
 
OP is using "Autopilot" pretty loosely.

TACC lets you travel whatever speed you want, but you must steer. I use it on city streets with FSD stopping at stop lights and stop signs enabled.

Autopilot (TACC + Autosteer) is limited to +5 MPH over the limit on city streets and has been forever. It still is, but you have to disable the FSD stop light and stop sign feature, which is the default setting. Up to 90 MPH on controlled-access highways, which hasn't changed.

Autopilot (TACC + Autosteer) with FSD stopping at stop lights and stop signs enabled has been limited to the speed limit. It looks like this will be bumped up to +5 MPH 2020.28.5 (or 28.x). Then it will work exactly the same with regard to speed limits as Autopilot always has.

Tesla hasn't killed "Autopilot". They have hobbled FSD stopping at stop lights and stop signs until they have more confidence in it and we beta testers have more experience with it. Turn the FSD feature off and Autopilot is the same as ever.
 
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The answer seems to be, at least for now - if you want to speed, drive yourself.

Can’t say I blame them, given the intense scrutiny every time an inattentive driver farts with autosteer engaged.

I’ve no first hand experience of the traffic light recognition on city streets which OP is referring to as “autopilot” as I wasn’t duped into paying to be a beta tester for that crap, but from what I hear about the current state of functionality on here it would be fully irresponsible and reckless for Tesla to allow a driver that pinky promises to pay attention to set any speed they want.

TACC is mature and will let you set any speed you want on any street.

Autosteer gives you 90 on the freeway and +5 everywhere else. This works well for me.

The fact that the speed limit database is inaccurate crap is secondary, but the fix to that problem isn’t “let the driver do whatever they want if they promise to be super good”.
 
The answer seems to be, at least for now - if you want to speed, drive yourself.

Can’t say I blame them, given the intense scrutiny every time an inattentive driver farts with autosteer engaged.

I’ve no first hand experience of the traffic light recognition on city streets which OP is referring to as “autopilot” as I wasn’t duped into paying to be a beta tester for that crap, but from what I hear about the current state of functionality on here it would be fully irresponsible and reckless for Tesla to allow a driver that pinky promises to pay attention to set any speed they want.

TACC is mature and will let you set any speed you want on any street.

Autosteer gives you 90 on the freeway and +5 everywhere else. This works well for me.

The fact that the speed limit database is inaccurate crap is secondary, but the fix to that problem isn’t “let the driver do whatever they want if they promise to be super good”.

You make a valid argument if the rest of Autopilot was perfect or close to it.

My point is if I can be trusted to keep Autipoilot/my car, and myself safe on urban surface streets while the system is in use, it can certainly trust me to allow perhaps an extra 5mph over the "limit" -- especially in cases where the GPS speed limit is absolutely wrong.

I used to be able to use TACC and lane keeping on just about all the roads at a reasonable speed but now I find myself constantly not being able to use TACC and lane keeping due to the overly draconian speed limit restrictions. Basically I bought FSD to be able to at least have some useful assistance driving the car, while FSD is perfected. Lately on surface streets I can rarely use TACC plus lane keeping while setting a reasonable speed to keep pace of traffic.

I realize I can override with the accelerator but it would be so much easier if the car would hold the set speed I desire while staying in the lane.
 
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OP is using "Autopilot" pretty loosely.

TACC lets you travel whatever speed you want, but you must steer. I use it on city streets with FSD stopping at stop lights and stop signs enabled.

Autopilot (TACC + Autosteer) is limited to +5 MPH over the limit on city streets and has been forever. It still is, but you have to disable the FSD stop light and stop sign feature, which is the default setting. Up to 90 MPH on controlled-access highways, which hasn't changed.

Autopilot (TACC + Autosteer) with FSD stopping at stop lights and stop signs enabled has been limited to the speed limit. It looks like this will be bumped up to +5 MPH 2020.28.5 (or 28.x). Then it will work exactly the same with regard to speed limits as Autopilot always has.

Tesla hasn't killed "Autopilot". They have hobbled FSD stopping at stop lights and stop signs until they have more confidence in it and we beta testers have more experience with it. Turn the FSD feature off and Autopilot is the same as ever.

Perhaps how this is perceived changes based on where you live.

If this does not affect you, I can understand why this may not seem like an issue.

I think the "hobbling" issues I have been experiencing lately has to do with some of the GPS speed limits being updated to limits that are wrong/too low from the actual limit and there being no way to override the speed while using TACC and lane keeping.

Imagine using TACC and lane keeping on a road with a 25 mph limit and you are going along just fine at 30mph and all of a sudden the car slows down to 15 because it thinks the speed limit is 15. The nanny feature does not let you as the driver go back to the 30mph speed limit you were driving on the same road. It limits your speed to a speed limit that is incorrectly low with no way to override making TACC plus lane keeping unusable.

It seems a bunch of GPS limits have been incorrectly updated recently around here to a point where what used to work is no longer usable for me because of the incorrectly low GPS speed limits and no way to override.

As these features get refined, as long as the the driver is the responsible party, the driver needs to be able to override the speed limit within reason when needed to keep pace with traffic.
 
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as long as the the driver is the responsible party, the driver needs to be able to override the speed limit within reason when needed to keep pace with traffic.

The driver always has an override, which is to take control and pilot the car manually. That’s of course what you should do if the automated features aren’t behaving safely.

I simply disagree that the right decision while features are being tested and refined is to allow the driver to override safety limits.
 
Unfortunately this is what I have begun doing as well.

The thing is before some of the recent updates, Autopilot with steering and speed control actually worked at the speed of traffic. I used to use Autopilot ALL THE TIME. Now there are many stretches along roads I travel where it is unusable as the speed restrictions cause people to tailgate me or cause dangerous situations for themselves, other drivers, and myself by trying to drive around me if I'm not driving the speed of traffic.

Maybe this is a east coat thing but if I stay at around 5-10 mph over the limit traffic just goes along smoothly and pretty much everyone leaves you alone. You drop down to the speed limit and it just invites all sorts of stressful behavior from other drivers.

After having paid for FSD, I'd really like to be able to use the lane keeping feature.

And this is not limited to just small roads either. A 4 lane divided road close to where I live also now has drastic speed limitations for Autopilot lane keeping. I used to be on Autopilot the whole way and now I never use Autopilot.

These restrictions have killed Autopilot for me. I use to use Autopilot like 90% of the time before some of the recent fancy updates and now I barely use it a third or quarter of the time because the speed restrictions have made lane keeping unusable when it wasn't the case before.

Turn off the stop sign and traffic signal beta. If this is disabled, AP will revert to you setting speed limits. However, note that if you were using AP “all the time” in these conditions then you were using AP outside of its intended use (restricted roads with on/off ramps). If you want to use AP with Teslas blessing on non-highway roads, you will need to adhere to their restrictions for the beta.

However I do agree that restricting to speed limits long term is dubious, and probably dangerous, since you (a) look stupid and (b) entourage people to pass you in possibly unsafe conditions.

There is a fundamental unanswered question about self-driving cars as they gradually become a reality. Most restrictions (such as speed limits and following distance etc) are based on studies of HUMAN response times and safety factors, and don’t apply to autonomous cars (which have other quite different issues). How should this apply to a car that can react 10x faster than a human?
 
Turn off the stop sign and traffic signal beta. If this is disabled, AP will revert to you setting speed limits. However, note that if you were using AP “all the time” in these conditions then you were using AP outside of its intended use (restricted roads with on/off ramps). If you want to use AP with Teslas blessing on non-highway roads, you will need to adhere to their restrictions for the beta.

However I do agree that restricting to speed limits long term is dubious, and probably dangerous, since you (a) look stupid and (b) entourage people to pass you in possibly unsafe conditions.

There is a fundamental unanswered question about self-driving cars as they gradually become a reality. Most restrictions (such as speed limits and following distance etc) are based on studies of HUMAN response times and safety factors, and don’t apply to autonomous cars (which have other quite different issues). How should this apply to a car that can react 10x faster than a human?

Yup, I'm afraid as they implement more FSD features they will lock out Autopilot to be unusable for normal driving on surface streets due to draconian speed limitations. That's already starting to be the case for me but it is somewhat due to many GPS speed limits being incorrectly low exasperating the speed limit nanny feature around where I live.

Here's my take. When Tesla is responsible for the liability and they launch their FSD autonomous network with their own cars, those vehicles can drive the speed limit. However when I'm in the driver's seat, and I'm liable for my own car, let me kindly set the speed limit as I see fit to keep with the pace of traffic around me as long as that limit is not obviously dangerous for the conditions.

Around here, driving exactly the speed limit or below the speed limit (when the GPS limit is incorrectly lower than the actual limit) ends up causing other drivers to cut off and tailgated you into oblivion. To reduce that stress lately I have had to stop using TACC with auto steering on a bunch of streets and I would like to be able to use those features again regularly.

i wish they'd allow you to set a limit of up to +10 mph for undivided surface streets. This would be especially helpful when the speed limit is incorrectly recognized by the car.
 
MobileEye who made the original autopilot has a patent on reading speed limit signs. Tesla loaths to pay patent fees for anything, which is why we don't have 3d backup camera, and speed limit recognition.

US20080137908A1 - Detecting and recognizing traffic signs - Google Patents

That patent uses obscure and dated pattern recognition methods by slicing the image into various layers.

Tesla has already figured out a way around this by using a neural net to process the images.

We will likely see actual speed limit sign recognition within the next few months.

What I'm really scared about is when that happens they will lock down TACC plus auto steering to the speed limit or just 5 over making it all unusable where I live where the speed of traffic is regularly around 10 mph over the limit.

As long as the driver is responsible and liable, the driver should be able to set the speed to keep pace with the speed of traffic. Otherwise what I paid all this money for will be useless for day to day driving.
 
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MobileEye who made the original autopilot has a patent on reading speed limit signs. Tesla loaths to pay patent fees for anything, which is why we don't have 3d backup camera, and speed limit recognition.

US20080137908A1 - Detecting and recognizing traffic signs - Google Patents
More of a failure of the patent system in general. A concept shouldn't be patented. Ten different companies can tackle a concept ten different ways without any infringing on the other as long as no one has stolen the other's code. The code is what should be patented.
 
More of a failure of the patent system in general. A concept shouldn't be patented. Ten different companies can tackle a concept ten different ways without any infringing on the other as long as no one has stolen the other's code. The code is what should be patented.

As a software developer, I completely agree.

Imagine if someone patented basic software sort and comparison algorithms!

Dig deeper and you find the answer and it is simple straight forward corruption and greed. The US Patent Office is self funded with the revenue they bring in issuing bogus software patents. The more bogus software patents they approve, the more money they make. It's obscene and to the determent of actual inovation. You want a software patent? How much do you have to give us?