Nannypilot Killed the Autopilot Star

[drtimhill]

As a software developer, I completely agree.

Imagine if someone patented basic software sort and comparison algorithms!

Dig deeper and you find the answer and it is simple straight forward corruption and greed. The US Patent Office is self funded with the revenue they bring in issuing bogus software patents. The more bogus software patents they approve, the more money they make. It's obscene and to the determent of actual inovation. You want a software patent? How much do you have to give us?

100% agree. And in fact it has turned the entire system on its head. A patent is supposed to protect inventors from being ripped off by copycats. In fact, patents are now just a form of currency for corporations to sabre-rattle at one another, leaving inventors out.

When I used to file patents it was a long and hard process because you had to prove to the USPTO that it was an original invention that was non-obvious and had been actually created (didn't just exist on paper). These days they hand out patents to anything, since the more they grant, the more money they get. I swear I could patent "A Method of Converting Raw Meat to Cooked Meat by the Application of Heat" and have no end of fun throwing lawsuits at steak and burger restaurants.

 

[PhilDavid]

We can’t have a meaningful discussion about Autopilot failure without mentioning the other big killer: phantom braking.

The system is essentially useless in the city and on the highway because of this.

I wonder if it happens only using auto steer or also with TACC. Anyone know?

At least phantom braking is not by design and the cases of phantom braking will go away as they refine the optical NN.

The overly draconian speed limit nanny is by design though. I'm really scared with where this is going as already the speed limit nanny has made TACC with lane keeping useless for most roads around here as I can't set a reasonable speed to stay with the flow of traffic.

The driver should be able to overide the speed limit. Imagine if on the highway they limited you to only 5 or 10mph over the limit. A bunch of rural roads are really no different from highways in terms of road condition and speed of traffic.

 

[TMThree]

As a software developer, I completely agree.

Imagine if someone patented basic software sort and comparison algorithms!

Dig deeper and you find the answer and it is simple straight forward corruption and greed. The US Patent Office is self funded with the revenue they bring in issuing bogus software patents. The more bogus software patents they approve, the more money they make. It's obscene and to the determent of actual inovation. You want a software patent? How much do you have to give us?

Imagine if someone claimed copyright of an API.

 

[ucmndd]

The driver should be able to overide the speed limit.

You keep saying this, without any real reasoning other than you being the one responsible. That’s just silly and obtuse. You honestly think Tesla isn’t going to get sued in the real courts AND the court of public opinion if they let good ‘ol Phil set his magic self driving car running first-release barely beta software to 50mph in a 25mph school zone and he mauls a kid? Because after all, Phil’s the one responsible? Give me a break.

Imagine if on the highway they limited you to only 5 or 10mph over the limit.

Many of us that have been around a while need not imagine this. The first release of autosteer for AP 2.0 cars (which came months after most of us bought them) was limited to 45mph, and only on freeways.

Some months later it was 55. Then 65. Then finally “up to 90”.

Why? Because the software was crap. It wasn’t ready. It was plain dangerous. Tesla knew that and decided that being conservative was more important than letting Phil do whatever he wanted after a pinky promise.

 

[ks1972]

Imagine if someone claimed copyright of an API.

Isn’t that already happening here

 

[drtimhill]

Imagine if someone claimed copyright of an API.

(coughs) "Oracle" ... (oops)

 

[PhilDavid]

You keep saying this, without any real reasoning other than you being the one responsible. That’s just silly and obtuse. You honestly think Tesla isn’t going to get sued in the real courts AND the court of public opinion if they let good ‘ol Phil set his magic self driving car running first-release barely beta software to 50mph in a 25mph school zone and he mauls a kid? Because after all, Phil’s the one responsible? Give me a break.


Many of us that have been around a while need not imagine this. The first release of autosteer for AP 2.0 cars (which came months after most of us bought them) was limited to 45mph, and only on freeways.

Some months later it was 55. Then 65. Then finally “up to 90”.

Why? Because the software was crap. It wasn’t ready. It was plain dangerous. Tesla knew that and decided that being conservative was more important than letting Phil do whatever he wanted after a pinky promise.

Oh please spare me the hyperbole. Next you'll be talking about how this is a scheme to kill poor starving orphans by crazy Phil.

The software is certainly not crap and it can handle going 30 mph on a road I drive on often where it incorrectly thinks the speed limit is 15 in certain areas.

I've never asked for unrestricted and unreasonable speed limits so please stop trying to twist my words into some obtuse unreasonable demand. I've always said let the driver set a speed within reason. Actually 10 mph over the limit would address all my needs, especially in cases where the car's GPS speed limit is wrong.

 

[ucmndd]

Oh please spare me the hyperbole.

It’s not hyperbole when it’s simply true. Look at the coverage and result of literally any accident where it’s even suggested that the driver had autopilot engaged.

This is the world we live in. I don’t blame Tesla’s lawyers for not wanting to take Phil’s word for it that he’ll be extra special careful and of course assume all responsibility.

No comment on the rest of my post?

 

[PhilDavid]

It’s not hyperbole when it’s simply true. Look at the coverage and result of literally any accident where it’s even suggested that the driver had autopilot engaged.

This is the world we live in. I don’t blame Tesla’s lawyers for not wanting to take Phil’s word for it that he’ll be extra special careful and of course assume all responsibility.

No comment on the rest of my post?

You posted while I was editing the previous reply to respond to the rest of your post.

You seem to confuse a driver NOT PAYING ATTENTION to an attentive driver wanting to set a reasonable speed to keep pace with traffic so as to not be a danger to themselves and others.

 

[ucmndd]

You seem to confuse a driver NOT PAYING ATTENTION to an attentive driver wanting to set a reasonable speed to keep pace with traffic so as to not be a danger to themselves and others.

I’m not confused - I’m asserting quite simply that it doesn’t matter.

 

[TMThree]

Isn’t that already happening here

thats-the-joke.jpg =)

 

[sevenout]

Many of us that have been around a while need not imagine this. The first release of autosteer for AP 2.0 cars (which came months after most of us bought them) was limited to 45mph, and only on freeways.

Some months later it was 55. Then 65. Then finally “up to 90”.

Why? Because the software was crap. It wasn’t ready. It was plain dangerous. Tesla knew that and decided that being conservative was more important than letting Phil do whatever he wanted after a pinky promise.

I've been around long enough (not as long as you) to remember a time when Autosteer used to allow you to go +10 mph over on surface streets. Then along came an update that nerfed it down to +5 mph over. Begs the question of why? Did the lawyers demand it? Did the regulators demand it? Or, was it just an internal decision by Tesla? Who knows for sure since a reason was never given that I have seen. Back then, Autosteer wasn't anywhere near to the level it is now. Time to bring it back.

 

[shieldsbrown]

I have a 2015 MS. It has something called Autopilot (beta) which is mostly TACC and lane keeping. Works well, and it reads speed limit signs. And it limits speed to the speed limit + 10 km/hr. Where I live the roads are mostly 80 km/hr, so I am limited to 90. When the limit changes, the car slows down. Usually.

An exception happened the other day, and I am not sure if it is repeatable. I happened to be on a stretch of road with a 90 km/hr limit, so Autopilot allowed me to drive at 100. Then the limit dropped to 70 km/hr and I assumed I would be limited to 80 - not so, it remained at 100. It saw and registered the speed limit sign, but it did not reduce my max speed.

I am not complaining, just noting my experience. It does say "beta" after all.

 

[ks1972]

I have a 2015 MS. It has something called Autopilot (beta) which is mostly TACC and lane keeping. Works well, and it reads speed limit signs. And it limits speed to the speed limit + 10 km/hr. Where I live the roads are mostly 80 km/hr, so I am limited to 90. When the limit changes, the car slows down. Usually.

An exception happened the other day, and I am not sure if it is repeatable. I happened to be on a stretch of road with a 90 km/hr limit, so Autopilot allowed me to drive at 100. Then the limit dropped to 70 km/hr and I assumed I would be limited to 80 - not so, it remained at 100. It saw and registered the speed limit sign, but it did not reduce my max speed.

I am not complaining, just noting my experience. It does say "beta" after all.

Your 2015 MS won’t “read” speed limit signs, unless you have FSD with HW3

 

[bmah]

Your 2015 MS won’t “read” speed limit signs, unless you have FSD with HW3

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. Cars with the MobilEye-based AP1 hardware (including every Tesla manufactured in 2015) can indeed read speed limit signs...they could do this even before the autosteer capability was available.

Back in those days there was a large analog-style speedometer on the IC. It placed a tick mark corresponding to the current speed limit. When it read a new speed limit sign, it placed a second tick mark on the speedometer, and then when the car actually reached the position of the sign, it replaced the first tick with the second one. Very nice UI feature, which unfortunately went away when we got the first autosteer capabilities and the UI changed to something like what you see today.

Bruce.

 

[ucmndd]

Your 2015 MS won’t “read” speed limit signs, unless you have FSD with HW3

Bzzzzzt.

Thanks for playing. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you backstage.

 

[bhzmark]

If you want the car to go faster under AP all you have to do is press the accel pedal down to get up to the speed you want and hold it there yourself. It will still autosteer as normal while you are holding the accel. Alternatively you can just use TACC and steer yourself. But you can always take your pick when the max speed is limited.

 

[BigNick]

Bzzzzzt.

Thanks for playing. We have some lovely consolation prizes for you backstage.

I hope he likes Rice-A-Roni. We have cases of that stuff leftover from the 70s. The preservatives in that stuff are amazing.

 

[HenryFarkas]

I have a 2020 M3 with FSD. It doesn't have the beta version. It does read speed limit signs, and when I'm driving using FSD on a road where the speed limit decreases, my car does not slow down. It keeps going at the 10 percent above the previous posted limit rather than slowing down to 10 percent above the current posted limit. This happens every time, and I drive this route several times a month.

 

[COS Blue]

We can’t have a meaningful discussion about Autopilot failure without mentioning the other big killer: phantom braking.

The system is essentially useless in the city and on the highway because of this.

I wonder if it happens only using auto steer or also with TACC. Anyone know?

Phantom braking happens even if you are just using TACC. Makes it scary to use. A step backwards from every car I've owned for the last 25 years. I just want the car to keep my speed steady. I can take care of steering and deciding when to hit the brakes. I'm happy to let the car do it for me, except it does an awful job of it. Honestly for the life of me I can't see why anyone thinks Tesla's AP (of which I consider TACC a subset) is good, let alone great, when it can't handle this simple task.