NanoFlowcell Quant, Quantino

[wycolo]

Harvard published preliminary (?) reports only a few months ago about this technology. But it was a stationary concept: heavy tank of fluids being pumped thru a reactor charger/uncharger and the solar panel array. Made sense as a home solar system where you could retrieve energy all night long as needed. Presumably cheaper than paying for a Tesla Battery Storage Unit.

Now these folks have put this technology into a car. I already have the Teslas, thank you, so I'm more interested in the stationary concept to charge the Teslas after 3pm.
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[ThosEM]

I can understand the skepticism, but not the resistance to the idea. There's a group at MIT also working on similar things: Green Car Congress: New Lithium rechargeable semi-solid flow cell offers energy densities an order of magnitude greater than previous flow batteries; possible applications in transportation and grid-scale storage
There's a reference to a technical paper in "Adv. Energy Materials" journal there.

Assuming this kind of battery can be conventionally recharged as well has permitting an electrolyte replacement, and has favorable energy density and cost, I'd be happy to see this find its way into my next Tesla. Wouldn't you prefer never to have to swap out the solid parts of the battery?

 

[ecarfan]

flowcell power maybe the next generation power source........

I like to think I am open to new ideas and I applaud that company for trying a new way to power cars. But I have a hard time envisioning flowcell powered cars becoming widespread based on the current technology. So the car runs for around 350 miles before it has to be "refueled" with over 100 gallons of two special electrolyte solutions? Even if that amount could be cut in half and range could somehow be doubled this seems like a step backwards because the fueling infrastructure would have to be built from scratch. And people could not refuel at home.

In contrast, building out an EV charging infrastructure is relatively easy and is already well underway. Plus, for many people it's pretty simple to charge at home and only infrequently need to charge away from home.

 

[30seconds]

I like to think I am open to new ideas and I applaud that company for trying a new way to power cars. But I have a hard time envisioning flowcell powered cars becoming widespread based on the current technology. So the car runs for around 350 miles before it has to be "refueled" with over 100 gallons of two special electrolyte solutions? Even if that amount could be cut in half and range could somehow be doubled this seems like a step backwards because the fueling infrastructure would have to be built from scratch. And people could not refuel at home.

In contrast, building out an EV charging infrastructure is relatively easy and is already well underway. Plus, for many people it's pretty simple to charge at home and only infrequently need to charge away from home.

it may be easier to scale production & recharging of an electrolyte solution than for Li ion packs. Initial production can probably be centralized at large scale chemical plant, but refueling stations will need to recharge locally if this is system is to be efficient.

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I like to think I am open to new ideas and I applaud that company for trying a new way to power cars. But I have a hard time envisioning flowcell powered cars becoming widespread based on the current technology. So the car runs for around 350 miles before it has to be "refueled" with over 100 gallons of two special electrolyte solutions? Even if that amount could be cut in half and range could somehow be doubled this seems like a step backwards because the fueling infrastructure would have to be built from scratch. And people could not refuel at home.

In contrast, building out an EV charging infrastructure is relatively easy and is already well underway. Plus, for many people it's pretty simple to charge at home and only infrequently need to charge away from home.

it may be easier to scale production & recharging of an electrolyte solution than for Li ion packs. Initial production can probably be centralized at large scale chemical plant, but refueling stations will need to recharge locally if this is system is to be efficient.

 

[Vexar]

Depending on the electrolyte involved, they may find an investment from Red Bull or Gatorade. My usual take on technology advances is to either (a) see if 2-5 other companies/thinkers are doing it or (b) wait for demonstration equipment and talks with regulatory agencies. At present, this might be a really interesting demonstration technology for the next ten years that proves to be as effective a means of transport as a jetpack has proven to be. Or P. Moller's flying car. There are forces at work such as economy and customer comfort which the inventors often ignore. I'd be interested to have Elon Musk weigh in on the subject.

 

[artsci]

Depending on the electrolyte involved, they may find an investment from Red Bull or Gatorade. My usual take on technology advances is to either (a) see if 2-5 other companies/thinkers are doing it or (b) wait for demonstration equipment and talks with regulatory agencies. At present, this might be a really interesting demonstration technology for the next ten years that proves to be as effective a means of transport as a jetpack has proven to be. Or P. Moller's flying car. There are forces at work such as economy and customer comfort which the inventors often ignore. I'd be interested to have Elon Musk weigh in on the subject.

Where's the working demonstration model? Without that it's just another one of those BS claims. Put aside the theory for a minute and just ask: Prove with an operating model that it actually works.

 

[tess1988]

Nanoflowce Quant e-Sportlimousine - same time to fill then a gasoline car

FIRST WATCH THIS PREVIEW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqLpqR0SPnQ&list=UUeA8UhVvZWhANbbk9pjBXkQ

DRIVE TRAIN

all-wheel drive via 4 three-phase induction motors,
torque vectoring for optimal drive torque distribution
peak power: 680 KW (925 PS); 170 KW (231.2 PS) x 4
operating power: 480 KW (653 PS); 120 KW (163.2 PS) x 4
peak-torque per wheel: 2,900 NM x 4

nanoFLOWCELL®

nominal voltage: 600 V
nominal current: 50 A
tank capacity: 2 x 200 L

PERFORMANCE

0 - 100 KM/H: 2.8 S
top speed: 380 + KM/H
range: projected 400 to 600 KM
energy consumption: 20 KWH/100 KM

DIMENSION AND WEIGHT

kerb weight with full tanks: 2,300 KG
wheelbase: 3,198 MM

WHEEL AND TYRES

front: 245 x 30 R22"
rear: 285 x 30-22"
rolling resistance optimised
width: 2,019 MM
length: 5,257 MM
height: 1,357 MM

BODY

door system: two double wing-safety-doors
door openings: 865 MM x 2,068 MM
side window: 400 MM x 1,830 MM
body type: monocoque

QUANT e-Sportlimousine by nanoFLOWCELL AG


No price yet and there but it takes the same to fill then a normal gasoline car

"the Quant e-Sportlimousine is powered by two tanks of liquid electrolyte which pass through a specially-designed membrane, generating electric current and powering the car’s powerful motors."
"low cells — or flow batteries as they are sometimes called — work by passing two liquids (electrolytes) containing different chemical components either side of a specially-designed membrane. While the two liquids do not mix and stay in their own closed system, an electrical reaction takes place between the two liquids as they pass over either side of the membrane, inducing an electrical current.Essentially then, flow cells operate in a similar way to a traditional battery, but instead of the electrolyte living inside the battery, flow cells store their electrolyte outside of the battery in discrete storage tanks."
From Quant e-Sportlimousine Nanoflowcell Electric Car Hits the Road of Germany
which also has some pictures.

There is also other videos showing the inside the car with the LCD "buttons" in the wood, and also gull wing doors like the tesla model x
QUANT e-Sportlimousine - New Dimensions in Design - YouTube

just like the model s it is way out of my price range but i think it gives the model s a run for its money if the price is right for you

 

[ecarfan]

Not a Tesla competitor and never will be.

"tank capacity: 2 x 200 L". Almost 100 gallons of liquids in the car? And who is going to build the refueling infrastructure for those two different electrolyte mixes? And why would anyone bother to do so?

 

[Jay Gatsby]

Guys, do you still think this is a "Fraud"? Apparently it's been approved to be driven in Europe.. How could vapourware or a fraud get this approval?? And Bosch??

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Not a Tesla competitor and never will be.

"tank capacity: 2 x 200 L". Almost 100 gallons of liquids in the car? And who is going to build the refueling infrastructure for those two different electrolyte mixes? And why would anyone bother to do so?

Um... what do you think current Gas stations are (if they are not huge liquid storage facilities?) Think beyond the square.. What would stop the current infrastucture being left in place and just filing one of the multitude of current gas tanks in the ground with the fuel necessary for this car? Isn;t this easier than putting in vast electric charging stations?? The key is the REFUEL time anyway... Just sayin..

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What kills the current electric car idea.. even the Tesla.. is refuel time.. If this thing can be refuel'd as quick as petrol (ie gas in the US) drive car..why wouldn't it succeed?...

 

[JRP3]

Guys, do you still think this is a "Fraud"? Apparently it's been approved to be driven in Europe.. How could vapourware or a fraud get this approval?? And Bosch??

Easy, they have a prototype that moves but has no where near the performance and range they claim.

The key is the REFUEL time anyway... Just sayin..

Actually it's not, it's purchase cost, operating cost, and range.

 

[Johan]

This thing is a hoax to get gullable investors money. Tech like this does not simply appear with a glossy ad film like that.

 

[JRP3]

So much snake oil it's dripping from his hair.

 

[ecarfan]

what do you think current Gas stations are (if they are not huge liquid storage facilities?) Think beyond the square.. What would stop the current infrastucture being left in place and just filing one of the multitude of current gas tanks in the ground with the fuel necessary for this car? Isn;t this easier than putting in vast electric charging stations?? The key is the REFUEL time anyway... Just sayin..
What kills the current electric car idea.. even the Tesla.. is refuel time.. If this thing can be refuel'd as quick as petrol (ie gas in the US) drive car..why wouldn't it succeed?...

It sounds like you do not own a Tesla. That's fine, it's just that Tesla owners don't even think about "refuel times" because every morning their "tank" is full since they recharge overnight at home. And long road trips with Tesla Superchargers are easy. I know, I've done them as have thousands of other owners.

As far as converting gas station tanks, that is not going to happen because for the next few decades over 90% of cars on the road will be ICE vehicles that buy gas. No station owner is going to give up a tank. So that would mean new tanks would have to be installed and trucks would have to be dedicated to transporting the electrolyte that goes into those tanks.

This flow cell car is certainly not vaporware, it's real. But it will fail for a variety of reasons which have already been pointed out.

 

[JRP3]

Well there is some question if the Quant is even using the flowcell technology at this point, so it may indeed be vaporware.

 

[Johan]

Well there is some question if the Quant is even using the flowcell technology at this point, so it may indeed be vaporware.

Yes I would be interested in knowing what is actually propelling the car in the ad. An ICE? An electric motor powered by a battery? Or could it actually be an electric motor powered by a NanoFlowCell?

 

[ecarfan]

Okay, I was trying to give the people who made the car the benefit of the doubt and accepting their claim that the car is actually powered by a flow cell, since as I understand it that technology is real and could in principle be used to power a car.

I should not have said "car is certainly not vaporware", I should have said "flow cell technology is not vaporware".

 

[Jaff]

What kills the current electric car idea.. even the Tesla.. is refuel time.. If this thing can be refuel'd as quick as petrol (ie gas in the US) drive car..why wouldn't it succeed?...

With all due respect Jay, anyone who brings up refuel time as a "killer" of an EV, needs to perform a LOT more research about EV's (including living with one whilst charging at home)...if you were sufficiently experienced in this area, you would see that your words in this matter are (almost) wholly irrelevant.

In your defense, there might be very little in the way of (actual) infrastructure charge stations in Australia, but, you do need to remember this is a world wide forum. Besides, I'm sure Australia has plenty of commercial, campground, and residential plugs which could be used in a pinch...

 

[Jay Gatsby]

Guys. I have no idea idea if it's a hoax or not. All I'm saying is keep an open mind. They say the car has been registered to drive in Europe. Not every engineering breakthru originates from the US you know.. In any case what's stopping the nanocell flowcell battery being charged on site? I'm no engineer. I have no idea if/or not these cells couldn't be charged in a conventional way from a home power point anyway..

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As for charge times.. you need to understand distance.. Some countries require huge range.. And no. there are ZERO charging options in Australia right now..

 

[JRP3]

All I'm saying is keep an open mind.

All we're saying is look at things with a critical eye. We've seen many similar claims over the years, most of them don't stand up to scrutiny or live up to the hype. The fact remains that flow batteries have typically had poor energy density so their claims are questionable at best.

 

[Jay Gatsby]

^ Ok. Fair enough. What's the physics on these batteries? Links? It clearly comes down to the physics. Whether the batteries are capable of storing enough energy to propel the mass for the claimed distance..