National Grid and Tesla Backup Switch [PV + (1) PW+ and (1) PW2]

[dailo]

Seems time makes more sense to stay with what is proven to work, the GW. So, how is the switch solution better than just using the GW2?

Motivation is probably mainly to reduce installation costs, as it cuts down a few hours from the installation and less materials.

 

[h2ofun]

For starters, it's one less box on the wall. But for those of us in the West with combo meter main service panels, if the existing main panel has enough breaker space and ampacity remaining to add breakers for solar and storage, then there is no need to relocate the branch breakers to a new panel. Much simpler installation, with reduced power shutdown time for the homeowner.

So glad I did not have a combo meter.

 

[FurryOne]

Seems time makes more sense to stay with what is proven to work, the GW. So, how is the switch solution better than just using the GW2?

I expressed that same thought, and was told that a directive from on high stated no more GW2 installs, only Backup Switches. Apparently this setup is still cheaper for Tesla than the Gateway2.

 

[h2ofun]

I expressed that same thought, and was told that a directive from on high stated no more GW2 installs, only Backup Switches. Apparently this setup is still cheaper for Tesla than the Gateway2.

Yes, that makes sense, but still would want at GW2

 

[miimura]

Yes, that makes sense, but still would want at GW2

If the system includes a Powerwall +, then the sum of all the components is the same, just packaged differently. Adding a GW2 would be adding redundant components and would introduce more complexity. Which computer is actually in control? Can the PW+ computer control the switch in the GW2?

 

[mountfield]

If the system includes a Powerwall +, then the sum of all the components is the same, just packaged differently. Adding a GW2 would be adding redundant components and would introduce more complexity. Which computer is actually in control? Can the PW+ computer control the switch in the GW2?

I agree with your comments re complexity and that the gateway 2 is mostly redundant with pw+
But clearly the pw+ can control the gw2 - I have this setup and the pw+ is acting as the controller

 

[dailo]

I expressed that same thought, and was told that a directive from on high stated no more GW2 installs, only Backup Switches. Apparently this setup is still cheaper for Tesla than the Gateway2.

Have you tested to simulate a power outage manually? If I select off grid in the app everything works, but if I shut off the main service breaker I lose power. I am guessing it's because the backup switch is still live so doesn't tell the PW+ that the grid is down. Still waiting to hear back from Tesla about this.

 

[miimura]

Have you tested to simulate a power outage manually? If I select off grid in the app everything works, but if I shut off the main service breaker I lose power. I am guessing it's because the backup switch is still live so doesn't tell the PW+ that the grid is down. Still waiting to hear back from Tesla about this.

OMG. I never thought about that case. The backup switch is upstream of the main service disconnect (main breaker), so it doesn't see the power failure. This is probably why they introduced the "go off-grid" because you can't do it manually.

 

[FurryOne]

Have you tested to simulate a power outage manually? If I select off grid in the app everything works, but if I shut off the main service breaker I lose power. I am guessing it's because the backup switch is still live so doesn't tell the PW+ that the grid is down. Still waiting to hear back from Tesla about this.

As I explained before, the inverter section in the PW+ fails to complete it's self-test cycle, so I'm dead in the water - no solar, no backup, nothing.

 

[cali8484]

Posted this in the other thread, but since this is also being discussed here wanted to share the update I received directly from PGE.

I also didn’t have my backup switch installed yet as was waiting for PGE to remove the tamper tag on the meter.

Since I was waiting, decided to to see if they had more info on the backup switch. I called PGE today and was routed to a different dept that handles the requests to have someone come out to remove the tag for the meter. I specifically asked about the backup switch and the lady mentioned that they just received an internal memo ~1 hour before I called that the Tesla Backup Switch is not approved and will not be allowed at all. I asked her what would happen for people that already had it installed and she wasn’t 100% sure but said since this is new info on their side but that it is definitely not approved and they will probably have to recall them. She also said they won’t be scheduling for techs to come out to remove the tags for this purpose anymore. Obviously not sure if everything she said is true but from what I also gathered from these threads my project advisor and PGE, it will be a great challenge.

When I called my project advisor this morning, he seemed aware that there’s been some trouble with these and that there would be some delay (weeks to months he said). However this update from PGE side seems to completely block using backup switches at all.

Did PG&E explain the reason for not approving?

 

[powerwall+]

Did PG&E explain the reason for not approving?

They didn’t tell me but I called my advisor again this week (spoke to 2 different advisors actually) and now they’re telling me that Tesla is in active negotiations with PGE to allow the backup switch. They’re just taking it day by day and do not have a good timeline of how long it would be.

However he told me that the backup option would be to just use a backup gateway but that would require a redesign and resubmitting of the permit which would be an estimated 1 month delay of the project. Instead I was advised to wait for the negotiations to proceed as they think they are close and that this is Tesla’s highest priority right now since so many backup switches were already installed in PGE territory. Tesla really should’ve squared away all the approvals before going ahead and putting these out everywhere as this was bound to happen!

Regarding why PGE would care, it seems like this new way of using the backup switch affects stuff on the PGE side. When using the backup gateway everything was behind the meter so they didn’t care but this backup switch would go on the PGE side which is why they need to come out and remove the meter. I asked someone from Tesla’s inspection team and they said city could come out and inspect everything else even though backup switch is not installed yet as that is on PGE side.

 

[cali8484]

They didn’t tell me but I called my advisor again this week (spoke to 2 different advisors actually) and now they’re telling me that Tesla is in active negotiations with PGE to allow the backup switch. They’re just taking it day by day and do not have a good timeline of how long it would be.

However he told me that the backup option would be to just use a backup gateway but that would require a redesign and resubmitting of the permit which would be an estimated 1 month delay of the project. Instead I was advised to wait for the negotiations to proceed as they think they are close and that this is Tesla’s highest priority right now since so many backup switches were already installed in PGE territory. Tesla really should’ve squared away all the approvals before going ahead and putting these out everywhere as this was bound to happen!

Regarding why PGE would care, it seems like this new way of using the backup switch affects stuff on the PGE side. When using the backup gateway everything was behind the meter so they didn’t care but this backup switch would go on the PGE side which is why they need to come out and remove the meter. I asked someone from Tesla’s inspection team and they said city could come out and inspect everything else even though backup switch is not installed yet as that is on PGE side.

In the past, PG&E has denied approval for GenerLink (a transfer switch similar to the backup switch) on the grounds that only PG&E owned equipment can directly connect to the grid (I am guessing for liability). So, I was wondering if PG&E is using the same reason to deny approval for the backup switch or there is actually some technical reason.

 

[dailo]

They didn’t tell me but I called my advisor again this week (spoke to 2 different advisors actually) and now they’re telling me that Tesla is in active negotiations with PGE to allow the backup switch. They’re just taking it day by day and do not have a good timeline of how long it would be.

However he told me that the backup option would be to just use a backup gateway but that would require a redesign and resubmitting of the permit which would be an estimated 1 month delay of the project. Instead I was advised to wait for the negotiations to proceed as they think they are close and that this is Tesla’s highest priority right now since so many backup switches were already installed in PGE territory. Tesla really should’ve squared away all the approvals before going ahead and putting these out everywhere as this was bound to happen!

Regarding why PGE would care, it seems like this new way of using the backup switch affects stuff on the PGE side. When using the backup gateway everything was behind the meter so they didn’t care but this backup switch would go on the PGE side which is why they need to come out and remove the meter. I asked someone from Tesla’s inspection team and they said city could come out and inspect everything else even though backup switch is not installed yet as that is on PGE side.

Probably using the number of installs as a bargaining chip unfortunately...maybe they are trying to leverage the VPP program or something to convince them.

 

[apsbalaj]

Just curious if anyone has any update regarding Backup Switch installs in PG&E territory. Had PW+ and Panels installed mid October and have been waiting for the backup switch. No advisor has been able to provide a timeframe for it besides telling me that I'm in que.

 

[dailo]

Just curious if anyone has any update regarding Backup Switch installs in PG&E territory. Had PW+ and Panels installed mid October and have been waiting for the backup switch. No advisor has been able to provide a timeframe for it besides telling me that I'm in que.

I saw on Reddit someone mentioned that all backup switches were on hold pending review from engineering at PGE. I imagine that has probably completed by now and they are working through the large backlog they have for installs, and with the recent storms maybe PGE is short staff. If it makes you feel any better, I did get PTO for my system with backup switch so hopefully that means it should be a smooth process once you get yours installed.

 

[BGbreeder]

I am not sure that I would jump from under engineering review to "approved" by PG&E. Given PG&E's recent safety issues, they have every reason not to drag their feet on approvals for new equipment on their systems.

 

[daveskee]

My solar panel/PW2 system was installed 9 weeks ago and I was told today by Tesla that I'm 2 weeks out of a 6 week wait for submission of application for the backup switch to be installed. After it is scheduled and installed, then application/approval for PTO is another 3-4 more weeks out. These are all estimates and Tesla could not or would not tell me where I am in the queue for the back up switch installation other than I am in the queue. Tesla says PGE is accepting back up switch applications at a rate of 10 a day. I asked about having Tesla install a Gateway instead of the back up switch and was told it would probably take longer than waiting for the backup switch installation/PTO. Of course Tesla's goal is to have backup switches installed eliminating Gateways going forward so there's little incentive for Tesla to offer this as an alternative.

I also spoke to PGE and learned that PGE solar division says they have no applications on file for my project and no record of a solar system at my residence. Meaning you probably will not have the application for PTO submitted until after the back up switch, hence the additional delay. They also informed me the back up switch was approved by PGE and is considered a pilot project with Tesla. Currently there are 300+ projects in the queue in California. Apparently there is a separate Pilot Project department at PGE that is in charge of the backup switch program. So between Tesla and PGE, any info you get you have to piecemeal together, decide to ignore or take with a grain of salt on how any or all of the info you get is really relevant to when you will get up and running if you are in this PGE Pilot program.

Honestly, I'm so frustrated with this whole process and the lack of consistent customer service from Tesla that I would be hesitant to buy any other Tesla products in the future. I know it's not all Tesla and PGE has a hand in this too, but Tesla could be so much better.

 

[ngkl]

I have panels installed in august , no inspection yet, finally backup switch scheduled to be installed tomorrow
Hopefully smooth sailing from now on

 

[daveskee]

I have panels installed in august , no inspection yet, finally backup switch scheduled to be installed tomorrow
Hopefully smooth sailing from now on

How’d the back up switch installation go and what are the telling you is next in the process?

 

[ngkl]

How’d the back up switch installation go and what are the telling you is next in the process?

it went well, they installed the back up switch 12 days ago and commissioned and the usage matches the app and in PG/E
they changed couple of breakers today
I was told I need to get revised permit from city followed by PTO