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Natural gas vehicles (NGVs, CNG)

Discussion in 'Cars and Transportation' started by vfx, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #1 vfx, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
    Honda pulls out of CNG

    The Auto Channel
    And it's not pretty...
     
  2. mt2

    mt2 Member

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    That's not going to make T. Boone Pickens very happy.
     
  3. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I heard a short talk about this car last night.

    2011 Honda Civic GX Overview - Official Site

    Apparently the idea is you have a small compressor in your garage that compresses natural gas from your home heating hookup and pumps it into the car. The range is pretty good.
     
  4. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  5. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    According to the site below, the "small compressor" uses 800 watts of eletricity to compress gas for 50 miles of travel.

    Knowledge Base - Fox Service Company
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    For four hours... which makes it 3.2 kWh, or 64 Wh/mile. That's about 20% of an EV right there.
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Well that huge news to me. 2nd only to range anxiety is charge time on people's list of why not to get an EV. So a NG car has little philling infrastructure and a long "charge" time? Nice to have this bit of info when someone says, "Why an EV? Why not a NG car?"
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Did you read the old post I linked before?:
    Hydrogen vs. Battery
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Of course I could point out that this is just garage fueling. Presumably an industrial-sized compressor at a proper filling station could do the job a lot faster.
     
  10. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    I am guilty of not reading either, until your second mention of the link. In my mind I didn't make the connection of the discussion of natural gas filling to a Hydrogen vs. Battery discussion.:wink:
     
  11. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Yes, you could fill CNG as fast has HFCV advocates claim you could fill with compressed H2 (but with a fuel that is much more energy dense by volume). So it's possible to fill in a few minutes.
    HyFLEET:CUTE :: Technology :: Hydrogen Refuelling
    refuel5.gif

    Since the only "efficient" way to make hydrogen is from natural gas, I've often argued why bother. CNG ICE vehicles seem to have all the benefits of HFCVs at a much lower cost and can leverage an existing infrastructure.

    map_us_ng_pipelines.gif
     
  12. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Same here.
     
  13. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    #13 richkae, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
    infrastructure

    If you could put a CNG compressor into your home and everybody does then CNG would need near as many filling stations as we need level 3 charging stations for EVs.
    Which is less than gas stations, because you could always leave home full.
    ( Maybe about the ratio of CNG fillup time ( ~5 mins ) to level 3 charge time ( 20 - 40 min )
    However, if only a fraction of people chose to put in a home CNG compressor we would still need a great many more CNG filling stations than level 3 charging stations.

    I for one, am totally comfortable with a 240 volt outlet in my garage for my EV. I am not as comfortable with a CNG compressor.

    If you drive your EV somewhere that only has a 110 volt plug, it is slow but you can still charge and use the car.
    If you go somwhere without a CNG filling station you are screwed - thus the bootstrapping problem of putting in CNG infrastructure is huge.
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    My house runs on electricity.

    And propane.
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Also keep in mind that the home CNG compressors tend to be noisy.
     
  16. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    VIDEO: T. Boone Pickens on the New Natural Gas Vehicle Act: Cleantech News and Analysis

     
  17. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  18. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Official: CNG Powered Civic To Be Rolled-Out Nationwide | The Truth About Cars

    GM, Chrysler and Honda to Offer Natural Gas Cars - Business News - Energy Digital

    [​IMG]
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    In California, with hybrid Prius & Civic soon to be disallowed from the carpool lanes, it has caused interest to increase in pure EVs, but also I gather the NGVs since they too get the white stickers which aren't expiring anytime soon. To some it is just a minor perk, but to others who cherish lone carpool access, their new car shopping list will be limited to cars that qualify for the EV/NGV stickers.
    On the other hand, when Plug-in Prius gets carpool access next year I imagine it will take some sales away from Civic NGV. They have about a 6 month window of opportunity in California right now.
     
  20. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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