Nav 8.0 - UI not made for driving

[AmpedRealtor]

I no longer like the idea of software updates. I did in the beginning, when Tesla wasn't screwing things up and taking away features. Today, Tesla is showing extreme incompetence with its software releases and an utter disrespect and disregard for its ownership base. Two years ago I thought Tesla could do no wrong. In the last two years, it seems they have done nothing BUT wrong in my eyes.

I can't wait for Tesla to have some real competition. I went from wanting all of my future cars to be Teslas to wanting other options. This is why I think Model 3 could be a disaster. Tesla doesn't learn from its mistakes and does nothing to try and correct its course based on feedback. Hubris? Overworked CEO? Total disconnect with customers?

 

[jeffro01]

I no longer like the idea of software updates. I did in the beginning, when Tesla wasn't screwing things up and taking away features. Today, Tesla is showing extreme incompetence with its software releases and an utter disrespect and disregard for its ownership base. Two years ago I thought Tesla could do no wrong. In the last two years, it seems they have done nothing BUT wrong in my eyes.

I can't wait for Tesla to have some real competition. I went from wanting all of my future cars to be Teslas to wanting other options. This is why I think Model 3 could be a disaster. Tesla doesn't learn from its mistakes and does nothing to try and correct its course based on feedback. Hubris? Overworked CEO? Total disconnect with customers?

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. If you're that unhappy with the progress and improvements Tesla has made with it's product since it was launched, then please, go buy something else.

The way I see this is very simple. People who are that unhappy with Tesla and their product have one real option available, sell\trade their car and get something else. Vote with your wallet if you believe it's as bad as you claim. Nothing wrong with that. Perhaps if enough people do that then Tesla will make the adjustments you feel they should make.

Specifically relating to you, while I can't remember what originally soured you on Tesla, it's clear that you've taken a strong anti-Tesla position and no matter what it is they do, you automatically declare it bad. That's okay too, it just gets a little repetitive to see the same posts thread after thread.

I love v8, I'm far from the only one. Tesla simply can't make everyone happy all the time, and that's okay.

Jeff

 

[BLKTSLA]

The original Tesla software had a very well defined UI model - which was consistent across all of the apps. And while the functionality was limited, it was pretty intuitive to use.

8.0 breaks that. Activities that were simple before have become more complicated (or even much more difficult to do).

A quality user interface is much more than having it look cool - it needs to be intuitive and easy to use. And especially when the user is using the interface while also performing a critical function (such as driving a car), it's even more critical that the interface be easy to use.

For UI changes, there is a methodology for evaluating the effectiveness of the changes - something that clearly wasn't done with the 8.0 release.

When planning UI changes, typical operations are developed as "use case scenarios", things like changing media source, picking a favorite radio station, browsing through songs, ...

For those use case scenarios, it's possible to measure how well the interface works by having someone step through the scenario to perform the function, measure the amount of time required and the number of interactions (screen/button touches). And for someone that is also driving a car, another important measurement is how much time is required for the user's eyes to be on the interface - and not on the road.

This should have been detected by Tesla's beta testers. Since these problems were present when the software was released, either Tesla doesn't have enough hand-picked beta testers OR those testers don't have experience in methodically testing new software products OR Tesla ignored reports on major UI problems.

This should have been detected by Tesla's internal QA group.

And, this should likely have been detected while the software was being developed AND should probably have been addressed when the software changes were even being planned.

IMHO, Tesla UI Beta testers must be a small group of hand-picked/carefully selected people very close to Tesla who have drank their Kool-aide and will just go along with almost anything they crank out in the UI. These are clearly not actual people with UI/UX experience.

The only thing we have seen them accomplish is adding color back to the top row of icons. If Tesla was going so far as to remove color and their significant visual cues in a DRIVING UI like that, there has to be some major UI egos heading up the development team. At least they backed down on that, but clearly didn't change anything else they farked up.

It baffles me how 90% of this code got into release/production, it's just so, so bad.

I'm somewhat in the middle with the new UI, liking some things (e.g. improved favorites access in radio) and disliking others (controls on right side of screen where I can't brace my hand.)

However, I'm 100% in agreement that Tesla needs a more professional approach to UI design. As a physician and medical informaticist, I spent nearly 20 years working with UI teams, trying to iteratively improve the function of electronic health records. Tough to do with so many different practice styles and temperaments (herding cats comes to mind.) But what we eventually learned was that the key to better design was in our accurate definition and prioritization of "use cases". What was the user trying to accomplish when interacting with any particular screen? And how often was that use case invoked? High frequency use cases needed to be nailed, for maximum simplicity and efficiency, while rare use cases could be more "hidden."

Here's a personal example: up here in the NW, I like having the heated steering wheel turned on most fall and winter mornings. However, in order to do this, I have to go through two screens to arrive at the proper place, and the setting is turned off every time the car stops, unlike the heated seats. Tesla could make the bottom panel on the screen more configurable, so that certain functions (like turn on steering wheel heat), could be chosen to display at the top level. And they could create an option to leave the setting on or off. Granted, Tesla is slowly headed in this direction. i.e. I like how you can now label and display A or B trips.

The other thing we learned over the years was that choosing random "enthusiasts" to beta test our designs wasn't a good idea. Testing needed to be done in a controlled environment with users of different temperaments, with professional UI observers working through various use case test scenarios. Testing should identify whether the UI is intuitive (e.g. easy to learn) and memorable (even if slightly difficult to learn, once learned, it's easy to remember) and efficient (based on frequency of use of particular features.)

Overall, I'd give the Tesla UI a B. It's mostly pretty good (and outright AMAZING compared to most other cars.) But to get an A, it's my opinion that they need a more professional approach.

Unless these are your respective pitches to have Tesla read this and decide to make you all beta testers is it really fair to blame them?

I mean are we really blaming our fellow owners for something that started with the tesla design team? I agree with 99.9% of the pain points mentioned with v8.0 but, IMO, these usability issues are no different then they have always been, and no matter how many people on the boards complain about it, it doesn't change. The touch screen UI has NEVER been designed for driving, it's been designed for multi-person use presumably while sitting at a supercharger.

So let's not blame the testers who are our fellow owners who are probably lurking on here, they more than likely gave the same feedback that everyone has given as @bob_p suggested but perhaps there wasn't enough time to implement changes based on Elon "tweetlines" twitter deadlines. Or maybe by the time it got to the beta testers it was too late to go back to the drawing board. Either way I think we shouldn't throw our fellow owners under the bus for something they have no control over.

Bottom line Tesla design team needs to remember that the car is driven a majority of the time and the UI/UX should be catered to that experience above all else.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

others like the Mercedes E-Class offer several different styles for the dashbaord.

That totally destroys Tesla. I wanted my next EV to be a Tesla, but after seeing this, I will probably wait for some German competition. This video really shows how woefully behind Tesla is.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Tesla must be competing with the defunct Fisker for most dysfunctional software.

 

[jeffro01]

That totally destroys Tesla. I wanted my next EV to be a Tesla, but after seeing this, I will probably wait for some German competition. This video really shows how woefully behind Tesla is.

LOL... If you honestly think that's so much better than so be it but you're simply kidding yourself to justify your own anti-Tesla stance.

Jeff

 

[HankLloydRight]

The touch screen UI has NEVER been designed for driving, it's been designed for multi-person use presumably while sitting at a supercharger.

Are you kidding me? Of course it was designed for driving. Version 6.2 had NONE of these mounting problems that Tesla continues to introduce into the UI. Designed for sitting at Superchargers? WHAT?? That's MAYBE 20% of the time spent in the car? That leaves 80% of the time using the UI while driving. We had nobody complaining here on TMC about V6.2 (or earlier) about how farked up the disappearing icons are, or that it takes multiple taps just to use the Nav maps (WHILE DRIVING!!!!), and let's not get into trying to use the USB media player (also mostly while driving).

Tesla must be competing with the defunct Fisker for most dysfunctional software.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Let's just break it down just one level.

If Tesla felt like these three changes were "improvements":

1. Auto Hiding Icon bar
2. Hiding Nav buttons (zoom, etc)
3. Nav and Rear Camera apps Auto-on-top

...which are clearly causing many drivers significant UX problems while driving, why not add extremely simple OPTION switches to allow the USERS to decide how they want to interact with the UI?

The fact that Tesla did not offer us a choice on how to change the UI behavior means that they are profoundly DEAF to user needs and requirements.

That's it. A few On/Off options is all we need. If people want these crappy new features, let them have it. Let the rest of us turn them OFF.

 

[jeffro01]

...which are clearly causing many drivers significant UX problems while driving, why not add extremely simple OPTION switches to allow the USERS to decide how they want to interact with the UI?

Exactly how do you come to this conclusion? It's not causing me any UX problems while driving. I'm not going to say that my experience therefore must mean everyone is having the same experience I am, nor should you.

Again, how can you say "clearly causing many drivers"???...

Jeff

 

[HankLloydRight]

Exactly how do you come to this conclusion? It's not causing me any UX problems while driving. I'm not going to say that my experience therefore must mean everyone is having the same experience I am, nor should you.
Again, how can you say "clearly causing many drivers"???...

The complaints on TMC here about these "features" are far outweighing the people who are saying "eh, it's OK".

Just read all the V8 threads.. there are A LOT of new or infrequent posters coming here to post their complaints.

It's not causing me any UX problems while driving.

Well, good for you then. The majority of people would like the OPTION to turn those things on or off, and not be forced into a single (non-UI developer) person's view of how the UI should work.

 

[jeffro01]

The complaints on TMC here about these "features" are far outweighing the people who are saying "eh, it's OK".

Just read all the V8 threads.. there are A LOT of new or infrequent posters coming here to post their complaints.

I thought you'd say that... Keep in mind that this forum represents a very small slice of Tesla owners. I've said before in other threads that I know 5 people who have Tesla's, but are not members here, and every one of them likes v8 and has no issues with it. As I've also said, in the interest of full disclosure, none of them use USB media. That seems to be the single biggest issue with v8. If you're a USB music user then it's pretty clear you have a legitimate issue that needs addressing. Everything else...??? Highly, highly subjective to your perspective...

Jeff

 

[HankLloydRight]

Highly, highly subjective to your perspective...

Yes, exactly. If it's so highly subjective, why should we be forced into having it only your way?

 

[Canuck]

The complaints on TMC here about these "features" are far outweighing the people who are saying "eh, it's OK". Just read all the V8 threads.. there are A LOT of new or infrequent posters coming here to post their complaints.

That's like saying Trump won the debate as a result of the on-line polls done on drudge and breitbart. (Which Trump supporters say with a straight face.)

I think if all owners were polled V8 would win in a landslide -- most owners of the vehicle don't post here and don't get all worked up over this stuff. As for me and my non-AP car, I'd almost trade my soul to the devil just to get version 6.2 back.

 

[HankLloydRight]

That's like saying Trump won the debate as a result of the on-line polls done on drudge and breitbart. (Which Trump supporters say with a straight face.)

While I understand what you're saying, V8 is different. With 7.x, on TMC it was mostly the same established people here bitching and moaning about it. That I'd agree with you. But if you go look, as I said, there are A LOT of new people coming to TMC to complain about V8.0. That's not the same TMC echo-chamber as before.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Also, moving from 6.2 to 7.x was mostly a UI design change. Flatter icons, changed IC displays, etc. Some liked it, some didn't.. I eventually got 7.x when I went in for service, and I learned to live with the changed look of the UI, even though I don't like it. But it still pretty much worked the same way. I can accept that

V8 has totally changed how the UI actually works. I can't accept that.

 

[Canuck]

Also, moving from 6.2 to 7.x was mostly a UI design change.

Aside from being a far superior UI for non-AP cars, 6.2 saved passwords (until a reboot only) and saved podcast spots when paused (and didn't play them overnight by itself) -- two huge frustrations with every version since. I think Tesla purposely does not want to save passwords -- just getting the keyboard to pop up on hotmail is frustrating and must be by design -- another frustrating change since V.7.

The only thing I have liked in all the upgrades since 6.2 is having the garage door open and close. But I'd trade that in a heartbeat to get 6.2 back.

 

[BLKTSLA]

Are you kidding me? Of course it was designed for driving. Version 6.2 had NONE of these mounting problems that Tesla continues to introduce into the UI. Designed for sitting at Superchargers? WHAT?? That's MAYBE 20% of the time spent in the car? That leaves 80% of the time using the UI while driving. We had nobody complaining here on TMC about V6.2 (or earlier) about how farked up the disappearing icons are, or that it takes multiple taps just to use the Nav maps (WHILE DRIVING!!!!), and let's not get into trying to use the USB media player (also mostly while driving).

Just because there werent as many complaints in v6.0 as there are in 8.0 doesn't mean it was the ideal UI/UX for driving IMO. The fact that you have any key buttons to the right of the screen makes it not suited for driving. The top nav should be on the left of the screen closest to the driver so it's easy to reach down quickly and press a button rather than take your eyes off the road for a longer period of time to reach across the screen. I'd venture to say that they realize this problem and are experimenting with it via the M3 UI which is what v8.0 is based off of and had a fluid design that had the map in the background and you could slide the main menu/window to the left or right depending on what you are doing.

If we all take a second and imagine what an ideal UI would be having driven the car for a period of time I'm pretty confident that most of the designs wouldn't resemble v6, v7, or v8. I think where frustration comes in is when they make UX regressions like the map autohide and we are all stuck until they make fixes.

 

[apacheguy]

On long journeys I try to have AP on before I do anything which involves the screen. I find this minimises risk though YMMV.

Umm, am I the only one that does not find this statement reassuring? You like the new UI and yet you recommend enabling autopilot before messing with it? The whole point is that the UI should be driver centric and therefore intuitive you should not feel distracted while using it.

 

[Boatguy]

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. If you're that unhappy with the progress and improvements Tesla has made with it's product since it was launched, then please, go buy something else.

Political Science 101 taught me (and perhaps others), that there are two basic choices for dissent, usually summed up as "voice or exit". The idea being that you can voice your complaints and seek change, or you can exit the system. I respect that you frequently have a contrarian view which you vigorously advocate, but not the calls that people who don't agree with you should exit the system (i.e., buy another car). The forum is for an exchange and expression of opinions, they need not all agree with each other.

n long journeys I try to have AP on before I do anything which involves the screen. I find this minimises risk though YMMV.

You've just made the point of this thread, the UI is not usable while paying attention to your driving. While you are willing to be more dependent on AP than is recommended by Tesla (or the German government), the fact that you're not comfortable with the UI while also being 100% focused on your driving is testimony to the shortcomings of the UI/UX.

By analogy, imagine that a pilot could not address the various controls and instruments in an aircraft without first putting it on autopilot. The most critical periods of flight are when the aircraft is under human control, which is why the UI/UX of an aircraft is the subject of considerable study and design effort. I suggest that given the significantly less training of most drivers, the cockpit of a car deserves the same level of attention and thoughtfulness in its design.

 

[jeffro01]

Political Science 101 taught me (and perhaps others), that there are two basic choices for dissent, usually summed up as "voice or exit". The idea being that you can voice your complaints and seek change, or you can exit the system. I respect that you frequently have a contrarian view which you vigorously advocate, but not the calls that people who don't agree with you should exit the system (i.e., buy another car). The forum is for an exchange and expression of opinions, they need not all agree with each other.

Did you not read the rest of my post that further explained the concept of "voting with your wallet" if you feel you're not getting what you expect...??? Any company that sells things, and name one that doesn't, operates under a basic principal "if what you are doing is working, keep doing it"... So if you're Tesla and see yourself having no issue selling cars despite the complaints, then why bend over backwards to fix them?

Does that make better sense? I'm not asking that sarcastically, I'm asking that because perhaps I did a poor job explaining my perspective the first time around.

Jeff