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Navigate on Autopilot Messages

Seattle Tom

Member
Mar 31, 2016
502
525
Seattle, WA
I’ve been noticing new messages since Navigate on Autopilot was released. I don’t think Tesla cataloged them all and I think they should have. This is kind of thing that should be in release notes to prep drivers for various situations.

I also think many of them need an audio alert, maybe even more than a chime but an actual spoken instruction.

Please add to the list as you uncover more in various situations.

Messages:
  • High Curvature Detected; Autopilot Limited: This was a relatively sharp turn and though the car handled it without intervention, the message was displayed constantly. (Seattle area folks can duplicate by merging onto 90E from Edgar Martinez Drive...it’s the turn to the right after you cross over I5.)
  • Unsupported Tunnel; Autopilot Limited: This disabled Nav on Autopilot and activated “regular Autopilot” for the length of the tunnel, then re-enabled Nav on Autopilot. Again, any Seattle area folks can duplicate this on I90E.
  • Poor Weather Detected; Autopilot Limited: Self explanatory during the recent rainstorms.
  • Autopilot Features Limited; Contact Tesla if this issue continues: This just happened for a 10 second stretch on I5S. Again, regular Autopilot was activated...then Nav on Autopilot was reactivated. Perhaps a dirty camera or some other obstruction?
  • Lane Change Canceled: Can’t figure this one out. Nav on Autopilot suggested a lane change, I signaled, it made about 40% of the move then abandoned it and displayed the message. I’ve had lane changes abandon before and the X swerve back to the original lane, but never seen a message confirming it.
Edit: I didn’t add any of the “default” messages (change lane to continue route, change to faster lane, etc.) because I didn’t make note of those but would love for anyone who has the text to include them.
 
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dlsspy

Member
Jan 9, 2018
83
91
San Jose, CA
I had this one yesterday.
2018-11-09 16.48.00.jpg
 
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boaterva

Supporting Member
Apr 2, 2016
7,562
3,736
Northern Virginia, USA
I had this one yesterday.View attachment 351579
I would call that a ‘normal’ message. :D It’s been in several of the YouTube’s.

I second the need for attention chimes. But I bet they aren’t there because this whole thing is temporary until it’s removed and the car does it on its own. The confirmation step was only added when they didn’t release full NoA originally.
 

bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,630
2,763
I've seen some of these messages pop up - though they seem to be on the display for only a brief time - easy to miss if you aren't watching the dashboard display when they pop up.

Would be useful for them to also display the message on the console display - like the message indicating an upcoming lane change...
 
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Seattle Tom

Member
Mar 31, 2016
502
525
Seattle, WA
Wow thanks to all for sharing. Both the “construction detected” and “trying to complete maneuver” messages seem to cry out for some way to notify the driver, besides the small message on the IC. I agree with Bob on putting them on the center console display but also playing an audio alert or message.
 
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mxnym

Member
Mar 9, 2018
845
309
Bloomington, IN
I'll be the devil's advocate and disagree that any of those notifications need separate sounds. I don't really feel any of them merit more time looking at the IC, either, and looking at the MCU when you have an IC is just a bad habit to begin with. That having been said, I drive with navigation audio off. I would have no qualms or complaints with additional voice notifications being added to the navigation audio for these alerts, because I wouldn't have to listen to them.
 

bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,630
2,763
If the AP system is warning of a potential problem - there should be an audible and visible notification (and maybe a setting to control that).

I've seen these notifications pop up on the dashboard display - but they tend to only be there for a very brief time. If I'm not washing the dashboard frequently, it's easy to miss the message - or have it disappear so quickly, that I couldn't read the message.

With the notification about an upcoming lane change showing up on both the dashboard and console display (at the top of the turn list), they should do the same with the other notifications - and also show them on the console - and keep them there for a longer period, along with an audible notification that the driver should look at the message.

If you're doing what you are supposed to be doing - keeping your eyes on the road ahead and monitoring the operation of NOAP, the way they are displaying the messages now doesn't work well - because the messages are only visible for a short time and quickly disappear - with no way to get them back.
 

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,876
2,196
SoCal
We have our MX for a year now and yet to see any of those AP messages LOL. But I only use AP on freeways and also roads/weather here don't change much.
 

mxnym

Member
Mar 9, 2018
845
309
Bloomington, IN
If the AP system is warning of a potential problem - there should be an audible and visible notification (and maybe a setting to control that).

I've seen these notifications pop up on the dashboard display - but they tend to only be there for a very brief time. If I'm not washing the dashboard frequently, it's easy to miss the message - or have it disappear so quickly, that I couldn't read the message.

With the notification about an upcoming lane change showing up on both the dashboard and console display (at the top of the turn list), they should do the same with the other notifications - and also show them on the console - and keep them there for a longer period, along with an audible notification that the driver should look at the message.

If you're doing what you are supposed to be doing - keeping your eyes on the road ahead and monitoring the operation of NOAP, the way they are displaying the messages now doesn't work well - because the messages are only visible for a short time and quickly disappear - with no way to get them back.
When the messages disappear, it means the problem is resolved, it wouldn't make sense to continue to display them at that point, and there isn't really any reason for you to need to go back and review them. Moreover, of these warnings:
  • High Curvature Detected; Autopilot Limited: This was a relatively sharp turn and though the car handled it without intervention, the message was displayed constantly. (Seattle area folks can duplicate by merging onto 90E from Edgar Martinez Drive...it’s the turn to the right after you cross over I5.)
  • Unsupported Tunnel; Autopilot Limited: This disabled Nav on Autopilot and activated “regular Autopilot” for the length of the tunnel, then re-enabled Nav on Autopilot. Again, any Seattle area folks can duplicate this on I90E.
  • Poor Weather Detected; Autopilot Limited: Self explanatory during the recent rainstorms.
  • Autopilot Features Limited; Contact Tesla if this issue continues: This just happened for a 10 second stretch on I5S. Again, regular Autopilot was activated...then Nav on Autopilot was reactivated. Perhaps a dirty camera or some other obstruction?
  • Lane Change Canceled: Can’t figure this one out. Nav on Autopilot suggested a lane change, I signaled, it made about 40% of the move then abandoned it and displayed the message. I’ve had lane changes abandon before and the X swerve back to the original lane, but never seen a message confirming it.
In four out of the five provided, the behavior in V9 with the warning is the same as the behavior in V8 without the warning. If you were doing what you were supposed to do in V8 and could deal with those four, then why do you suddenly need an audible notification in V9? The four I'm referring to are also pretty self-explanatory. The visual warning may give you an extra cue to be alert, but the argument that you need the audio alert because you're paying attention to the road is a straw man. Either you need an audio alert because you're not paying attention to the road, or you don't need an audio alert.
  • When you're going around a sharp corner, if autopilot doesn't handle it well, you take over, warning or not, audio or not.
  • When the weather is really bad and autopilot misbehaves, you take over, warning or not, audio or not.
  • When autopilot features are limited and something doesn't work, you take over. If the issue persists, you contact service.
  • When the vehicle swerves back into its lane, you don't even have to be paying much attention to notice it, and if the lane change was safe and you are paying attention, you cancel before the swerve completes and finish the lane change, warning or not, audio or not.
When driving in a very wet environment recently, I had the surround view limited warning come up every time I went by a vehicle, I would NOT want it chiming constantly just because it's raining, I'm paying attention and can take over if need be. The existing audio alerts are already too loud in some vehicles and too quiet in others. Further, their volume can't be adjusted. The V9 interface shows the lengths Tesla will go to make the interface simpler even at the expense of functionality, so while the suggestion that they could be optional is commendable, it's not very realistic.

The only warning out of these 5 (6 if you count surround view limited) that even arguably needs audio is the unsupported tunnel message, and to the extent that it needs audio, that audio should be included in the navigation voice, which can be muted, not separately as a mandatory or optional audible alert.
It would also be reasonable to mention the unsupported tunnel in the directions on the MCU, but the rest of the warnings are already indicated on the MCU by the warning icon and don't really need reflected there in any other way.
 
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Seattle Tom

Member
Mar 31, 2016
502
525
Seattle, WA
In four out of the five provided, the behavior in V9 with the warning is the same as the behavior in V8 without the warning. If you were doing what you were supposed to do in V8 and could deal with those four, then why do you suddenly need an audible notification in V9? The four I'm referring to are also pretty self-explanatory. The visual warning may give you an extra cue to be alert, but the argument that you need the audio alert because you're paying attention to the road is a straw man. Either you need an audio alert because you're not paying attention to the road, or you don't need an audio alert.
  • When you're going around a sharp corner, if autopilot doesn't handle it well, you take over, warning or not, audio or not.
  • When the weather is really bad and autopilot misbehaves, you take over, warning or not, audio or not.
  • When autopilot features are limited and something doesn't work, you take over. If the issue persists, you contact service.
  • When the vehicle swerves back into its lane, you don't even have to be paying much attention to notice it, and if the lane change was safe and you are paying attention, you cancel before the swerve completes and finish the lane change, warning or not, audio or not.

By that logic, you shouldn’t get a warning or a sound when the Automatic Braking engages either.
  • When you’re going to hit an object in front of you, you take over, warning or not, audio or not.
 

mxnym

Member
Mar 9, 2018
845
309
Bloomington, IN
By that logic, you shouldn’t get a warning or a sound when the Automatic Braking engages either.
  • When you’re going to hit an object in front of you, you take over, warning or not, audio or not.
AEB doesn't make noise, it hits the brakes, and sometimes you still hit whatever was in front of you because you weren't paying attention. FCW makes noise, but it does that by definition, it's a warning, not a notification, and it's optional, you can turn FCW off. As far as I'm concerned, the turn signals shouldn't make noise until a number of conditions have been met that mean you have most likely accidentally engaged them or left them turned on. That having been said, I wouldn't complain about any optional noises, I just don't see the need, and the argument that "I can't see the notifications because I'm watching the road" still doesn't hold any water for the notifications I discussed in the current driving environment (L4 FSD would arguably be different, but we don't have that).

ETA: LDW is also an optional warning feature, and it even has optional noise; I have that noise turned off.
 

bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,630
2,763
Took a 90 mile round trip drive yesterday.

On the way out, NOAP was disabled with a warning that the surround view was limited and NOAP was disabled - evidently there was some issue with the side cameras (since no vehicles were being displayed on either side, suspect it was more likely a software glitch than a hardware problem). Tried to call Tesla - but the wait time was longer than my drive...

When I started the return trip, the side cameras were working again.

As I entered a long area of new construction, a warning popped up briefly on the dashboard while running under NOAP - something like "Construction area detect, NOAP limited" - this message was only displayed for a few seconds as I was entering the construction area - and then disappeared - and didn't reappear while I was driving under NOAP for the next 10+ miles where there was active construction, with temporary road barriers, temporary lane movements, and tight lanes with temporary lane markings.

If I hadn't been watching the dashboard for the few seconds when this message was present (highly likely since I was looking forward, monitoring how NOAP would handle the construction transition), I wouldn't have even been aware the software had detected the construction area.

On the outbound trip - the side camera warning was visible during the entire trip - while on the return trip, the construction zone warning was there only for a few seconds. Tesla could do better in managing these warning messages...
 

mxnym

Member
Mar 9, 2018
845
309
Bloomington, IN
As I entered a long area of new construction, a warning popped up briefly on the dashboard while running under NOAP - something like "Construction area detect, NOAP limited" - this message was only displayed for a few seconds as I was entering the construction area - and then disappeared - and didn't reappear while I was driving under NOAP for the next 10+ miles where there was active construction, with temporary road barriers, temporary lane movements, and tight lanes with temporary lane markings.

If I hadn't been watching the dashboard for the few seconds when this message was present (highly likely since I was looking forward, monitoring how NOAP would handle the construction transition), I wouldn't have even been aware the software had detected the construction area.

On the outbound trip - the side camera warning was visible during the entire trip - while on the return trip, the construction zone warning was there only for a few seconds. Tesla could do better in managing these warning messages...
While I don't know and can't prove it, I believe that warning should display as long as NOAP thinks it is in a construction zone, so I suspect the warning disappearing would imply that NOAP was no longer being limited.

In this scenario:

If you had missed the notification, what would be different? I'm thinking you simply wouldn't know it had been briefly detected and that would have been fine.

If there had been a sound and you looked quick enough after the sound to see it, what would be different? I'm thinking it would be the same as you happening to see it, you think the functionality is being appropriately limited due to the construction zone even if it wasn't.

If the warning stayed for your review, you would most certainly think that functionality was being appropriately limited due to the construction zone even if it wasn't.
 

bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,630
2,763
Either way, the software could benefit from improvements.

If it only believes it is in a construction zone for a few seconds - when the construction lasted for 10+ miles, then the software isn't properly detecting the end of a construction zone, and the warning isn't of much value (especially if it quickly flashes and then disappears).

But, if it believes it is entering a construction zone and operating inside a construction zone, there should be a continuous indication that the software is in an area of higher risk.

Another quirk I've seen - when entering into an EZ tag toll plaza - with highway-speed drive through lanes, NOAP has a tendency to want to unnecessarily change lanes and temporarily drops out of the NOAP mode and back into AutoSteer while driving through the toll plaza, without any message explaining what's going on.

Perhaps there should be a "verbosity" setting on the AP software, allowing the driver to control the level of information being provided to the driver from the software. If the software is making decisions based on its interpretation of the road conditions, especially while we're dealing with beta software - might be very useful to know what the AP software is "thinking" about situations, rather than trying to guess from how it is reacting...
 

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