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Navigate on Autopilot - Unusable Even on Freeway!

Bob Denny

Member
Feb 20, 2020
143
76
Mesa, AZ
2020 MX Software 2021.24.3 with “FSD”. It knows nothing about HOV lanes. With all of the speed based lane changing options OFF, driving in an HOV lane with a solid white line to the right. The moment I engage Nav on AP it wants to take me out of the HOV lane. That is with like 5+ miles before the exit. “Upcoming lane change, touch to cancel” Touch, OK, Then 5 sec later again, and again. What the hell? I had a problem in CA on a toll “Fast Track” lane with closely spaced rubber posts that are designed to prevent people from getting in and out except at designated places. Same damn deal. Is this Full Self Driving (ha ha joke!) that stupid?

Then there are the unsafe lane changes. When it needs to change lanes to the right it seems to do it in the stupidest way possible at times. With a clear way ahead, at or below the speed limit, it slows down, stacking cars behind, and waits till there is space behind the car to the right. How stupid! Accelerate 5MPH, get ahead of the car on the right and pull into the lane on the right. Clear ahead!

It will happily stay in a car’s blind spot if it can’t get past, instead of dropping back a couple of car lengths, giving you a lane escape and avoiding the second most crash-involved place. Worse, it will take you right into a “death zone” between a semi and the center guard wall, with maybe 8 feet on either side, a car in front of you just ahead of the semi, and just sit there while you look the semi driver in the face driving alongside the tractor’s drive wheels. Holy ****!

I basically it’s almost useless except on an empty 4-lane divided highway where there are no decisions to make. I can only imagine what this will be like on surface streets. Too bad Tesla is burning it up to get “full self driving” working when freeway navigation on Autopilot is so stupid.

Now I feel better ha ha.
 

TresLA

Member
Jul 15, 2018
146
171
L.A.
Not sure how your experience has been so bad, but it’s been great for me since released (and now I’m on 24.4). You should probably check a couple settings (maybe you already have?):

1) Make sure to turn on “Use HOV Lanes“ under Navigation section.

2) Try turning on “Require Lane Change Confirmation” under “Autopilot” section => “Customize Navigate on Autopilot”, so it doesn’t do scary things without you acknowledging it first. Once it seems to be making good decisions again, turn that back off.

Also, these automated/assistance programs will probably never be programmed to accelerate over a set speed, especially a speed limit.
 
Last edited:

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,463
8,621
Visalia, CA
1) Make sure to turn on “Use HOV Lanes“ under Navigation section.
It's beta. It works in some HOV lanes and not in others. You just have to memorize where it works and use it and where it doesn't and turn it off so you can use Autopilot and keep inside the HOV lane for that situation.

...Also, these automated/assistance programs will probably never be programmed to accelerate over a set speed, especially a speed limit...
That's the problem. People bought FSD and expect it to work as FSD which it doesn't and you have to what work and what don't and manually set it / adapt to its limitations.
 

rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
3,088
2,556
Orange County, CA
2020 MX Software 2021.24.3 with “FSD”. It knows nothing about HOV lanes. With all of the speed based lane changing options OFF, driving in an HOV lane with a solid white line to the right. The moment I engage Nav on AP it wants to take me out of the HOV lane. That is with like 5+ miles before the exit. “Upcoming lane change, touch to cancel” Touch, OK, Then 5 sec later again, and again. What the hell? I had a problem in CA on a toll “Fast Track” lane with closely spaced rubber posts that are designed to prevent people from getting in and out except at designated places. Same damn deal. Is this Full Self Driving (ha ha joke!) that stupid?

Then there are the unsafe lane changes. When it needs to change lanes to the right it seems to do it in the stupidest way possible at times. With a clear way ahead, at or below the speed limit, it slows down, stacking cars behind, and waits till there is space behind the car to the right. How stupid! Accelerate 5MPH, get ahead of the car on the right and pull into the lane on the right. Clear ahead!

It will happily stay in a car’s blind spot if it can’t get past, instead of dropping back a couple of car lengths, giving you a lane escape and avoiding the second most crash-involved place. Worse, it will take you right into a “death zone” between a semi and the center guard wall, with maybe 8 feet on either side, a car in front of you just ahead of the semi, and just sit there while you look the semi driver in the face driving alongside the tractor’s drive wheels. Holy ****!

I basically it’s almost useless except on an empty 4-lane divided highway where there are no decisions to make. I can only imagine what this will be like on surface streets. Too bad Tesla is burning it up to get “full self driving” working when freeway navigation on Autopilot is so stupid.

Now I feel better ha ha.
Doesn't Arizona have the warning "crossing a double white line to/from HOV lane is a violation?" The corollary is a single white line in AZ separating mainline from HOV can be legally crossed.

At least, that's how it was last time I drove near metro Phoenix.
 

EVRider-FL

Member
Aug 18, 2015
771
443
South Florida
I've had NoA propose a lane change out of an express lane that was separated from the adjacent lane with poles. That's one reason I've never disabled lane change confirmations. To be fair, that only happened once.

A more common occurrence for me is NoA wanting to get into the express lane when it's closed. Some express lanes open and close in response to changing traffic conditions and/or times of day, so unless the car can read and understand the same digital signs that tell us when the lanes are closed, I'm not sure what NoA can do there. I've wondered if NoA would detect that the express lane gate is down at the last minute and abort the lane change, but I'm not running that experiment.
 

Bob Denny

Member
Feb 20, 2020
143
76
Mesa, AZ
1) Make sure to turn on “Use HOV Lanes“ under Navigation section.
Facepalm-PNG-File.png

This must have come in on a recent SW update. Thank you!! I will go out and test this afternoon!

Doesn't Arizona have the warning "crossing a double white line to/from HOV lane is a violation?"
ARS doesn't answer it, so I asked a "friend" (DPS trooper), who says there are no restrictions on entering and exiting HOV. ADOT doesn't give reasons for the wide-dash, wide-solid, and double wide-solid lane markings we see, at least not that I can find. So I have no reason to worry about the solid white here.

Thanks to others for additional comments. I'll test Use HOV and report back.

The other "limitations" are still above the safety red line at least for me. I know it's "beta" but I would get the safety issues worked out before anything else!

-- Bob
 

rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
3,088
2,556
Orange County, CA
View attachment 701317
This must have come in on a recent SW update. Thank you!! I will go out and test this afternoon!


ARS doesn't answer it, so I asked a "friend" (DPS trooper), who says there are no restrictions on entering and exiting HOV. ADOT doesn't give reasons for the wide-dash, wide-solid, and double wide-solid lane markings we see, at least not that I can find. So I have no reason to worry about the solid white here.

Thanks to others for additional comments. I'll test Use HOV and report back.

The other "limitations" are still above the safety red line at least for me. I know it's "beta" but I would get the safety issues worked out before anything else!

-- Bob
https://apps.azdot.gov/files/mvd/mvd-forms-lib/99-0117.pdf

See page 37. "A double solid white line separates two lanes of traffic going in the same direction. Crossing a double solid white line is prohibited."

That "ask a cop" article that first shows up in absolutely bad advice.
 

Bob Denny

Member
Feb 20, 2020
143
76
Mesa, AZ
See page 37. "A double solid white line separates two lanes of traffic going in the same direction. Crossing a double solid white line is prohibited."
Yes. But crossing a single wide line is also prohibited in some cases, like making an early entrance from an on-ramp, changing lanes on surface streets "too close" to an intersection, entering a gore point (though you might argue thata a gore point is a double-wide lane, just not parallel :)). They key bit that DPS seems to go by is that you can enter and exit the HOV at will. But if you cross a double white under any circumstances then that's illegal. Thanks for that part!!!
 

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