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Navigation issues with v6.0

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by ThosEM, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    Based on our first longish trip and many shorter trips since v6.0 software appeared, the new Navigation software still needs work:

    * It only proposes one route per destination, and the priority is clearly on minimum driving time. Why not also propose a minimum distance route, or other choices, and allow a selection?

    * It continuously reevaluates the route as one travels it, and posts new routes whenever it computed an advantage, causing the distance and ETA to fluctuate wildly. Why not ask for approval for a proposed route and lock it in when approval is given? If approval is not given, why not ask what criteria apply? Minimum time, minimum distance, toll free, other?

    * The software treats any deviation from its current route on the part of the driver as a mistake, and labors to get the driver to U-turn. It only gives up and switches to the driver's route after many attempts to push its favored route on the driver. Why not simply put up a dialog? "Looks like you missed a turn. Would you like to a) return to the route, or b) plot a new route? If a new route, what criteria apply?

    Navigation has never been so important to us as it is now that we must make it to a supercharger to have a reasonable charging duration. For that purpose, having a posted route with a known distance and expected arrival time is important even for routes that are familiar and frequently travelled. There is no substitute for comparing the battery state of charge or projected range against the distance remaining on the navigation system and monitoring that periodically throughout the trip. But to do so requires a stable trip route. If we can't get the route we need from the system before starting, we need to "teach" it the route we wish to follow during the trip. And it is anything but helpful to have the system constantly proposing new routes as the trip progresses. These things really need attention badly, in my opinion.

    What's your experience? Do we have some things to learn about how the system works?
     
  2. bob_p

    bob_p Member

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    The route offered by the navigation software should be considered advice - not necessarily the best route. Traffic conditions can quickly change - especially when the route contains stop lights and other possibilities for traffic slow down.

    The latest software does a better job of offering a good route - and the dynamic re-routing tries to help when traffic conditions change.

    But there still remains considerable room for future improvements - especially if the intention is to implement "autopilot".

    As for getting to a supercharger - most of those are located on major highways - and traffic rerouting on trips outside of urban areas is not as likely to have much benefit.
     
  3. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    I can see some value in dynamic re-routing, but only if I as driver approve of it. I'd be happy with a dialog offering me the opportunity as I have seen at times. But I have observed the route to be dynamically varying all over the place under some circumstances, without asking me if I want that. Not acceptable.

    Considering that it is common knowledge that EV range can be extended by "shun-piking" or switching to shorter distance, lower speed routes, it seems to me that the software should be more helpful in achieving that end when needed, by offering minimum distance as well as minimum travel time routes.

    On your third point, my observations of dynamic route switching/hunting were indeed well outside of urban areas in countryside where a large number of secondary routes were available. I'm very curious if other people are seeing this behavior?
     
  4. iffatall

    iffatall Member

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    I too very strongly believe driver approval should be required when updating a route. In worst case, there should at least be a big message pop up. The current re-routing is extremely subtle, and very easy to miss. When I start a trip, I select navigation, I check the route it has picked, make sure that is indeed the route I need to take, and I go. Now when I am following the turn by turn navigation, all of a sudden I realize I am not on the route I thought I was taking - the route was updated at some point, I did not notice it! This may be good at most times, but sometimes, it may be disastrous.

    Regarding the navigation thinking you missed a turn v freshly calculating a route - I do not believe it is not smart enough to distinguish the two yet. It asks you to make U turns because making a U turn and going back on the original route may still be more optimum (shorter time) than an alternate route. This is very normal.
     
  5. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    I guess not many are troubled by this, though... Interesting. Or maybe this post has been deep-sixed by the moderators? I noticed it never appeared under "what's new", which is where I go first to monitor new posts...

    It seems like it would be easy enough to put up a dialog asking if the turn was missed, or a new route is being followed that should be optimized. Consider it a request on my part.
     
  6. RichardL

    RichardL Member

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    I agree the new route should be suggested and accepted.

    Recently I had to drive across LA. It suggested surface streets rather than freeways (which might have been OK with the carpool lanes). But driving across the grid of LA streets caused it to re-route me all the time. At one stop light it was suggesting to go straight ahead, then switched to a left turn, then switched to a right turn - all before the lights turned green! I am sure making loads of left turns with no filter light would not save time. So maybe 'toning it down' on the re-routes would be a good idea.
     
  7. taurusking

    taurusking Member

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    I agree completely...I wish it does a better job...Very frustrating sometimes when I am visiting new places... I can see in the map that the destination is straight ahead but for some reason the navigation asks me to take a left and make a U turn and turn left...:confused:
     
  8. mibaro2

    mibaro2 Member

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    I've found something interesting with the navigation that just started to occur recently (I haven't had any map updates, but an on the latest version 6).
    The map will show to turn right at the traffic lights, and the nav voice will say "turn left" . At first I thought I was hearing things, but after it has done this a few times, I know I wasn't hearing wrong. It doesn't do it all the time, but often enough. It really confused me when I was in Chicago, and didn't know where I was going (as compared to my regular drive home which I know quite well).
    Anyone else have that issue with the nav voice?

    - - - Updated - - -

    It did that to me when I went to the Maumee supercharger..I'm staring at a T intersection, and it wanted me to go straight.
     
  9. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    I disagree with this because any step requiring driver input while driving is potentially distracting, and therefore, dangerous.
     
  10. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    The traffic based routing has been pretty useless here in Portland, OR. It regularly does bizarre things like reroute me off a main street one block over to a side street even though the main street has no traffic on it (either actual or yellow/red on the Nav).
     
  11. Kandiru

    Kandiru Member

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    I am thinking more and more about skipping the tech package in favor of a PadHoldr to put my 4G Galaxy Note 10.1 with the fantastic Google Maps with streetview and 3D navigation. Heck, I even navigate from the synced calendar, and the device is encrypted for safety, kids watch Netflix. Bluetooth linked to radio.

    This is in my base Audi, recessed charging pins poured into epoxy out of sight:

    2012-05-25_20-08-08_210.jpg
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    There should most certainly be more than one route choice. Even my now 11 year old Prius Nav has always given me 3 choices. There are definitely deficiencies that really are sort of inexplicable in such an otherwise capable and advanced system.
     
  13. RichardL

    RichardL Member

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    I have heard the same thing a few times - certainly prior to 6.0 as well. I recall hearing it around Christmas last year, the very first time I used the Nav (5.8 perhaps?)
     
  14. taurusking

    taurusking Member

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    Agreed...I wish it gave us 3 different options...My GM ICE vehicle gives me three options as well (which btw is 2012 map)
     
  15. MartinAustin

    MartinAustin Active Member

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    I would also like the altitude, or geographic elevation, of the destination be accessible. The GPS position of the car ought to be able to allow you to calculate your current altitude. If the software would highlight to the driver that the journey includes a serious ascent, this would be useful for estimating range and required charging, etc.

    Here's a trip from Austin to Abilene in Texas:

    altitude1.png altitude2.png

    You can easily see that you're climbing from 489ft. to 1719ft. above sea level. Or, if you're going from Abilene to Austin, it's a descent. This makes a serious difference to the range of the car!

    The nav software should have this info built in, and assist you if it think the range of the car is going to be negatively affected.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    At the very least it should be able to avoid toll roads.
     
  17. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    A few items related to this. First, the "automatic" rerouting. There is an accepted route in the nav (whether or not you had a choice in that route). When you deviate from the route, you are still on an active trip/route. The software will attempt to place you back on that route until it's more advantageous to take another route based on the nav calculation. This is expected, and necessary, behavior. Simply cancel the trip in the nav if that's what you want.

    Alternate routing choices, including top three routes, no toll road, no highway, etc routing is badly needed. It's available on both Google and Navigon, not sure why it's not implemented in the Tesla. Far more important than having the nav reroute me based on traffic conditions (though that's useful.

    Having said that, I don't really adhere to the nav recommendations/routing. I use it to primarily compare my remaining distance to estimated range and ensure that I'll make my destination. I prefer to use the big-a** map on the center screen to evaluate my options and select a route. Thus, waypoints would be an enormous feature improvement for me (also available on Google and Navigon but not yet implemented by Tesla).
     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Sometimes it seems as if the toll road operators paid for the development of the software because it always wants to take a toll road if there is one within five miles.
     
  19. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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    Around here, the toll roads are probably preferred because they have higher speed limits, meaning shorter travel times. I don't mind paying the tolls, but agree the option to exclude them is important.
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Here the toll roads would cost more than charging the Tesla by an order of magnitude if you used them. Many seem to be $1.50-$2.00 every few metres.
     

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