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navigation- Tesla navigation poor safer to use mobile phone with google maps

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Julie's MS, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. Julie's MS

    Julie's MS Member

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    i notice more and more that my in car navigation is using old maps and not the current maps. Often showing the wrong names for streets even those leading up to a supercharger.

    Such a high tech car with such low tech navigation.

    Has anyone else run into this problem?

    I also find google maps more accurate in predicting travel times between locations.

    Wish there was an easy way to report issues with the navigation
     
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  2. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #2 Ulmo, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
    That is a well known issue here on TMC. Tesla has slowly improved its navigation system slower than their competition, mostly being Waze, Google, Apple, various GPS hardware nav vendors, and other car manufacturers with their own systems, including Leaf, and web sites like evtipplanner.com EV Trip Planner . I myself used a combination of navigation systems (including my in-car nav) before my Tesla, and now, I continue to use those in my Tesla. It's pretty rare that roads on the nav don't match the roads in real life, but it does happen, for every map system I have access to. What I do like about Tesla's nav system is that it is OK at estimating battery use in trips once I get used to the mental offset calculations I have to apply to it. I still have to fall back to EVTripPlanner and EVTO (iPhone/Android/Amazon tesla_to | Digital Auto Guides & Announcing the EV Trip Optimizer for Tesla App ) to plan more detailed trips. I also use Tesla-Waze https://tesla-waze.excelsis.com/ on the in-car browser most of the time now, only switching back to the built in company nav to verify my battery situation as I go along. I use my smartphone (mounted on my dash) for augmentation as needed. Sometimes for simple routes, I'll just let the Tesla built in nav guide me. But, if I'm at all confused, I pull up Google Maps for detail or that plus Waze for driving congestion issues. I also have two backup apps on my iPhone that store all their data in phone memory, so I don't need Internet to know where I'm at or nav (which I often have to use in mountain, camping and desert driving).

    It is an area where Tesla could offer vast, vast improvement. Can you believe that when they originally released the car, it wouldn't estimate battery usage? They have been improving it, just not quickly.

    The in-car maps get updated about every couple of years; we're noticing about once a year these days. The last big update was first released December 19, 2016 and rolled out over the next couple of weeks. New (sort of) maps!
     
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  3. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I wish there was an easy way to get the maps version.

    It does download updated maps, and mine did so fairly recently (within the last 6 months or so).

    But, there is no way for me to know if I'm current.
     
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  4. Phoenixhawk101

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    I've seen these comments before but have to admit I don't see the same issues (thankfully). I have now done three cross country trips with my car plus managed to navigate downtown Chicago and the surrounding Chicago-Lamd suburbs all without any Nav related issues. The maps even updated for the new interchange they recently added. I am not sure where Tesla gets its map updates but it seems to only be an issue regionally.
     
  5. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Member

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    I'm assuming that you'll get a much improved Nav system in 8.1 to pave way for FSD. It will need much higher resolution maps with more detail.
     
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  6. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    EAP is supposed to use the navigation routing to change highways along the route. FSD is supposed to use the navigation routing to operate without driver interaction, especially when on the "Tesla Network".

    Clearly the current navigation software isn't going to achieve these goals. Tesla needs higher resolution data to track not only the roads, but the entrance/exit ramps and individual lanes. And this data must be up-to-date, not only tracking road changes, but also temporary changes in construction areas.

    The awkward combination of Garmin software, out-of-date navigation maps, Tesla's console navigation interface and the Google maps display on the console display was understandable in 2012 when Tesla was doing a quick time-to-market navigation solution. But that's not going to be enough to achieve their goals for AP2.

    And with Tesla's competitors all getting serious about FSD - surely Tesla is already working on a vastly improved navigation system...
     
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  7. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Member

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    Im pretty sure that's exactly what I said in the post above you in about 90% less words.
     
  8. dunginhawk

    dunginhawk Member

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    Ive been reading alot about the dissapearance of 3g in the not so distant (1-2 years) future... Thats going to throw a major wrench in things...
    I think the fix for tesla for legacy owners should be to allow tethering from my iphone to the system and use my LTE data.. Sure it may up my data plan useage, but id rather do that and keep my features than lose them all together.
     
  9. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    I dislike Tesla navigation because it does not offer some of the basic features available in other navigation systems. However, it has one of the best interfaces on the planet compared to other manufacturers. At the end of the day, I prefer using Tesla's navigation because it is the easiest to input address information and interact with. But I do wish it had some of the other features like waypoints, POIs, etc.
     
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  10. Tomnook

    Tomnook Member

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    I agree with you - good idea as a stop gap before 5G rolls out here in '2020' with its 20Gb download and 10Gb upload speeds. The last update, 17.9.3, was iro 420Mb which would take just a couple of seconds to download whereas it probably takes an hour or two at present over LTE or 3G - imagine the amount of data needed for actual realtime mapping updates - basic maps will always be out of date.
     
  11. RayW

    RayW Member

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    All they need to do is put a few summer CS interns on it and write a Waze app for the Tesla OS
     
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  12. Tangible

    Tangible Member

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    My S90D, delivered 12/2016, came with an iPhone dock. Unfortunately the phone is impossible to see when it's down there in the dock, and there's no CarPlay or equivalent to project phone apps onto the Tesla screen.

    I'm sure there's one or more threads dedicated to how to dash-mount an iPhone in a Tesla with minimum disruption. Pointers would be appreciated.

    PS: My opinion: Tesla should implement CarPlay and Android Auto. Nav is a huge, complicated business that no car company should be in.
     
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  13. Phoenixhawk101

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    There are already a million threads that explain why CarPlay/android auto are both impossible and unwanted. The solution is much simpler, Tesla gets periodic updates from Google on its maps (likely with standard updates and then the data stays on each car). They simply need to increase the interval of refreshes. This costs a lot of money to Google and for the cell signal so would need to increase the cost of the car slightly but even $500 per car would cover weekly map refreshes plus cell data for the fleet.

    It's all just a matter of money. Well that and time...someone at Tesla would need to code the refresh and overlays.
     
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  14. Tangible

    Tangible Member

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    "There are already a million threads that explain why CarPlay/android auto are both impossible and unwanted."

    I just need one good one. Can you provide a link?
     
  15. berkeley_ecar

    berkeley_ecar S 90D (fully loaded) delivered 18 Mar 2017

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    I also am troubled by not being able to see my iPhone in its dock. Although I don't find the nav system horrible by any means, I do like using Tomtom on my iPhone. That way I also get a choice of voices, including Simpsons characters. ;) Abstract Ocean (AO) offers a magnetic ball mount for phones.

    However, AO show it mounted to the right of the steering wheel, a position that is totally useless for this tall guy, for whom the steering wheel blocks view of that area. About the only place I can imagine putting the mount where there would not be an obstructed view or problems with sun potentially hitting the display, would be on the windshield at the top edge, right in front of the driver. Then I'd have to run the power cable through the headliner, left front pillar, and footwell, and then into the console to plug into the USB connection there. Hmm, I wonder, though, if there might be laws against mounting something on the windshield like that...
     
  16. berkeley_ecar

    berkeley_ecar S 90D (fully loaded) delivered 18 Mar 2017

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  17. TR5642

    TR5642 Member

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    I don't think this is correct. The Navigon side (the one that shows on the IP) is loaded in the car and updated periodically. But the main (17") screen one if provided by google live over 3G (LTE on newer). You can see the effect if you head into an area without cellular coverage. No maps. Nothing. Frankly it's stupid. Google provides methods to cache. If you head into no-cell land without the map you want to see active on the screen you are SOL. I've seen this in Joshua Tree NP and in the mountains several times.

    BTW, for those of you who haven't run into this yet, there is a workaround for new destinations. You need to search for the place you want to go BEFORE you lose signal. You can use the 'recent' link to get it later. The onboard Navigon system can nav to an address but can't find things.
     
  18. xborg

    xborg Member

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    Totally unrelated and everything you write is wrong.
    Tesla doesn't use Google Maps as a routing source. Google Maps is just an overlay for your middle screen. And It's not downloaded, it's directly accessed online, maybe with a small cache.
     
  19. Phoenixhawk101

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    There are three parts to a navigation system.

    The first is the data map. This I believe is pulled from one of the primary Mapping companies. (I assume the same one Google uses, but doesn't have to be. ) this exists only as a vector format (math equation). This is usually cached locally on the Gps (to date I know of no GPSs that do not do this, but I don't know all makes). Google maps for example began with using Tele Atlas data. They currently use data from a number of other vendors in google maps outside of the USA such as AutoNavi.

    The second is the routing algorithm. This converts the mathematic formula of the data into a solution for point to point travel. This is completely Teslas and is cached locally on the car.

    The third is the graphical overlay, this in many cases has nothing to do with the underlying other two. In Teslas case this comes from Google in the form of Google maps. This is what you are seeing when you go into a bad cell coverage area. However if the entire navigation system functioned off cell than when you entered a bad cell coverage area the GPS would not work completely, which is not the case.

    The problem is not with the graphical overlay (which is why you say you are annoyed, because the car SHOULD be able to route, "I can clearly see it.") the issue is either with the routing algorithm or with the underling data maps. My bet is the data maps.
     
  20. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    EAP/FSD will likely rely on the Tesla navigation software for routing. EAP is supposed to automatically change highways. FSD needs to know where it is going.

    Clearly the current combination of Navigon/Garmin software & data, Tesla UI/Trip Planner software and Google maps/traffic data isn't going to cut it. The routes are based on map data that is often 1-2 years old, and doesn't know about new roads, permanent road changes or temporary changes due to construction.

    Tesla will need to use up-to-date road data with software that interacts with EAP/FSD - plus Tesla will need higher resolution map data, providing information on lane locations - not just roads. And, we haven't yet heard how Tesla plans to do this.

    The current model of downloading the entire navigation map data base once a year (though I can't recall seeing any map updates in our S P85 since late 2015) is obsolete. Tesla should be able to update the maps much more frequently - and really only needs to provide the map data for the area immediately around the car - and along a route when taking a road trip. 95-99% of the map data will likely never be used in most cars, and is a waste of bandwidth to transmit and local storage to keep it.

    Technically, Tesla should be able to provide up-to-date map data, but to do that will require some major changes to the current navigation software - and hopefully Tesla is already working on that.

    NOTE that in the FSD demo video, the console display is not showing a navigation route... The demo is not using the navigation software for routing...
     
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