NC Bill to tax EV's and Hybrids

[Talax74]

My 2 cents from a NC resident tesla owner
Don’t like a tax that assume a minimum number of miles.

If these money are used for road maintenance I’m all about paying taxes.
Actually 2 ideas are(one or the other) is to get rud of the taxes on gas and
1) Pay also this kind of tax on the value of your car so whoever can afford an expensive or want an expensive car should consider this.
Persons that are not rich often cannot afford car that are hybrids or electric.
or
2) Pay on the miles you’ve done in a year. In theory the more miles the more you pay. Odometer would be marked on the yearly check

I know, none of these are 100% fair and there are ways to cheat the system but maybe better than blindly give another tax only to a subset of car owners.

 

[wenkan]

We live in a smart era, we should not go from a kind of “pay per use” system back to a flat rate. I only want to pay for the roads I have driven on.

 

[Talax74]

You either want to incentive EV's or you don't.

You can't give tax credits on one side and then increase taxes on the other.

I suspect that they want to increase EV taxes because the number of EV owners are not high enough to cause the politicians backlash, compared to increases gas taxes further.

Maybe this was not the main driver, but yes it’s easy to tax a subset of “rich” people. It even looks good for a part of the voting population.

“rich” in brackets because my opinion of rich is somebody that can make 200KUSD per year without working not even 1 day diring the year. If you have to work to make that money you can afford a Tesla, but you still have to work so you’re not reach, you’re doing good (well very good)

 

[SSedan]

These taxes/fees should be figured based on environmental and infrastructure impacts. Not on whether or not someone is "rich".

It is a jab get a clue and a sense of humor.

Far as those arguing the roads are damaged just by trucks, I suppose you would be fine with the roads being setup just for trucks, single lane since the volume is low compared to cars.........
I will concede trucks cause cracks, potholes etc. but the volume of cars adds a need for more lanes which also increases drainage needs etc.
I think the idea cars cause no damage and therefore no cost is not a valid argument.

Besides the trucks are hauling stuff you buy, the idea the evil trucking companies should pay instead of you is just as hell game

 

[StellarRat]

We should all be asking trucks to pay their true share of road costs. One fully loaded semi does more damage to the roads than literally hundreds of cars. The US trucking industry has basically been heavily subsidized for decades because they've NEVER paid their fair share of the damage they do to our roads. Sure, they'll claim they pay much more than cars and mostly they do, but that isn't close to what they should be paying. The switch from railroad freight (low CO2 per ton) to truck freight (high CO2 per ton) was partially because trucks have an unfair cost advantage since they don't pay enough for their infrastructure use. We pay for roads that make the trucking companies money unlike the railroads that maintain their own infrastructure.

 

[Atari2600]

It is a jab get a clue and a sense of humor.

Far as those arguing the roads are damaged just by trucks, I suppose you would be fine with the roads being setup just for trucks, single lane since the volume is low compared to cars.........
I will concede trucks cause cracks, potholes etc. but the volume of cars adds a need for more lanes which also increases drainage needs etc.
I think the idea cars cause no damage and therefore no cost is not a valid argument.

Besides the trucks are hauling stuff you buy, the idea the evil trucking companies should pay instead of you is just as hell game

Taxpayers(all kinds) should pay for the roads to be built through bonds or whatever. Truck drivers should pay for all the support. Trucks don't just cause cracks and potholes, one fully loaded axle does as much damage as 10,000 cars. Do you really think there are over 10,000 times more passenger vehicles on the road? I'm assuming 3 axles minimum. Really heavy trucks have as many as five axles or more.

Trucks destroy the base underneath the pavement and city buses destroy the roads as well. If these truck taxes cause the price of goods and services to increase then we will be paying for it in the end which should make you happy. (which is what happens anyhow)

 

[Big Dog]

California I think has proposed legislation for a similar tax on EVs.

small nit: law has been approved and signed. The new $100 fee/tax occurs in 2020.

 

[ebmcs03]

I have a problem when they tax BEVs more than our fair share. The tax imposed on me is is equal to driving 20,000 miles a year in a 35 mpg car. That’s not right. I don’t drive that much.

$100 / $0.18 gasoline tax per gallon. = 555 gallons. At 35 mpg is almost 20k miles.

 

[PhaseWhite]

Write your legislator and demand to keep your rich person tax cut.

You may not see yourself as rich but if you are driving a Tesla your are doing okay and you are using the roads those taxes in theory pay for. Also before trying to do the math on how I'm balanced it is please include the Federal fuel tax you aren't paying not just the state when doing the math.
Yes some folks will pay more on EV registration than they would have in fuel but others will pay less, not perfect but better than the wasted money of the government trying to track it and make it fair.

Don't fall for this BS, the EV registration fees are designed to be punitive and guess who's spearheading the effort? Oil and Gas industry aka Koch brothers and ALEC:

Don’t Be Fooled: Annual Fees on Electric Vehicle Drivers Are Not “Fair”
Koch Brothers Attack Electric Cars With Misinformation Campaign Again

 

[TMThree]

Maybe this was not the main driver, but yes it’s easy to tax a subset of “rich” people. It even looks good for a part of the voting population.

“rich” in brackets because my opinion of rich is somebody that can make 200KUSD per year without working not even 1 day diring the year. If you have to work to make that money you can afford a Tesla, but you still have to work so you’re not reach, you’re doing good (well very good)

Considering the cost of the base SR Model 3, along with fed tax credit, it costs less than the average car sold in America today.

 

[Knightshade]

Don't fall for this BS, the EV registration fees are designed to be punitive and guess who's spearheading the effort? Oil and Gas industry aka Koch brothers and ALEC:

Don’t Be Fooled: Annual Fees on Electric Vehicle Drivers Are Not “Fair”
Koch Brothers Attack Electric Cars With Misinformation Campaign Again

Eh, I don't doubt they are pushing such laws... but the NC tax at least still leaves me paying less per year in taxes for roads than I previously paid in my ICE vehicle in gasoline taxes.... so despite driving a heavier car now I'm paying less to maintain the roads it's using, even after the higher EV tax.

 

[afadeev]

Agreed in general as long as there are also taxes on CO2 emissions and where that’s missing these EV taxes do not apply.

They should be increasing taxes on vehicles with high environmental impact such as cars with poor gas mileage with V8 engines and what not, not hurting the incentives for EVs.

The "problem" they are trying to solve is increasing tax revenue, not saving the Earth or reducing CO2 emissions.

I have a problem when they tax BEVs more than our fair share.

Fair is my 2nd most favorite 4-letter word that starts with an F***

Road construction and maintenance budgets are primarily funded with Federal and State gas tax surcharges (larger for trucks than passenger cars), so EVs skirt that funding source.
If you like the roads your Tesla drives on, sooner or later, you will be asked to pay to help maintain them. It's only a matter of how and how much, not if.

I'm OK with that, in principle, but would not mind to haggle and whine a bit over the exact amount.

a

 

[jat255]

Eh, I don't doubt they are pushing such laws... but the NC tax at least still leaves me paying less per year in taxes for roads than I previously paid in my ICE vehicle in gasoline taxes.... so despite driving a heavier car now I'm paying less to maintain the roads it's using, even after the higher EV tax.

It's almost as if a fair tax could be (how much the car weighs) * (how many miles it drives) * (some factor related to damage per pound and mile). All of that information is already part of the annual registration anyhow, so it's not like it requires some massive new infrastructure to implement. And I'm sure there have been studies determining that damage factor. Any other formula is picking and choosing winners and subsidizing one vehicle over another (which would be better accomplished through direct subsidies, if that was the point).

 

[Knightshade]

It's almost as if a fair tax could be (how much the car weighs) * (how many miles it drives) * (some factor related to damage per pound and mile). All of that information is already part of the annual registration anyhow, so it's not like it requires some massive new infrastructure to implement. And I'm sure there have been studies determining that damage factor. Any other formula is picking and choosing winners and subsidizing one vehicle over another (which would be better accomplished through direct subsidies, if that was the point).

So one problem is 12 US states don't do annual inspections. At all.

Thus no way to check mileage.

A bunch more don't do them for at least SOME of their cars (either by county, or age) so no way to check those either.

But otherwise, yeah, a per-mile charge possibly modified by vehicle size/class would be a reasonably fair way for passenger vehicles at least.

Commercial trucks might be more complex because you run into things like "Independent trucker who got to pay his share spread out all year via gas taxes versus now owing a huge lump sum at registration time" kinda stuff though.

Actually probably poorer passenger vehicle owners might have the same concern- they've got 20 cents a gallon to pay each fillup, but not $500 extra at registration time....

So now you'd need to offer some kinda long-term payment plan/system to help those folks out I guess?

 

[DeadHead616]

They do this in the Michigan, (thanks Big 3). Any vehicle that doesn’t use gas is charged a $100 EV fee and a $35 administration fee. The state claims the fee is to offset the gas tax not collected by EV drivers. Okay, I’ll give them that. I’m okay with paying my fair share. But if you’ve been on the roads here, I’m not so sure that’s where the money goes.
Again, there is exactly ZERO state incentives in Michigan for EVs. I’m fact, my state voted to keep Tesla from selling cars here - one of only 3 (?) states that have done that. Not impressed. The only satisfaction I get out of all of this that the $100 covers what I’d pay in about 11,000 miles of driving and I easily do about 20,000/yr so I’m still coming out ahead. Sort of.