FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Ingineer, what are your thoughts about replacing the 12V battery with a Li-ion unit?
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Ingineer, what are your thoughts about replacing the 12V battery with a Li-ion unit?
Gizmotoy
Active Member
It won't.
Behavior of mine is about the same in my garage. I'm on my third battery with a car 2.5 years old.
Replacing it is going to get expensive once it's out of warranty. Especially for those of us with pre-D cars where the 12V is hard to get to.
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
My P85 is almost 2 years old, and has not needed a 12V battery replacement so far. What am I doing right?It won't.
Behavior of mine is about the same in my garage. I'm on my third battery with a car 2.5 years old.
Replacing it is going to get expensive once it's out of warranty. Especially for those of us with pre-D cars where the 12V is hard to get to.
(I don't charge or even plug in every day; usually twice a week is sufficient.)
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Something! Give us your secret!My P85 is almost 2 years old, and has not needed a 12V battery replacement so far. What am I doing right?
(I don't charge or even plug in every day; usually twice a week is sufficient.)
It's not the twice a week charging. I did that until about 2 months ago.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
I am the same. Charging 2x/week (which I agree shouldn't play a role in 12v longevity) and I've had my car 15 months with the same 12v.My P85 is almost 2 years old, and has not needed a 12V battery replacement so far. What am I doing right?
(I don't charge or even plug in every day; usually twice a week is sufficient.)
I'm in your boat. I put 50k on 2014 P85 and never once had 12v issues in 18 months. I have my theories that are only loosely corroborated though.My P85 is almost 2 years old, and has not needed a 12V battery replacement so far. What am I doing right?
(I don't charge or even plug in every day; usually twice a week is sufficient.)
BozieBeMe2
May I have this dance?
@Ingineer
Thanks for that 12v tip. I began thinking about it and since I still have a ICE that sits a lot, I decided to follow that tip and install a Coleman brand 12v, 2 watt, solar panel as a battery tender.
So far, it is working great! You just have to make sure that the power point / cigar receptacle, is on all the time.
Thanks for that 12v tip. I began thinking about it and since I still have a ICE that sits a lot, I decided to follow that tip and install a Coleman brand 12v, 2 watt, solar panel as a battery tender.
So far, it is working great! You just have to make sure that the power point / cigar receptacle, is on all the time.
Until the all in one units (with built-in BMS) get a lot cheaper, it doesn't make sense financially. Most of the ones I've seen with built-in BMS are not built very well, and are still super expensive. Stick with AGM for now.
OK, so I'm looking through this thread but haven't had time to digest all 14 pages of comments. I've not seen anything said or speculated about using the app to control car functions (turn on a/c, open/close sunroof) potentially impacting the battery drain (although Steve's comments above do allude to it). I've used the app a fair bit and now barely 2 months in on a new vehicle, I've seen the dreaded 12 volt battery drain warning message. It disappeared shortly thereafter, and will look to see if it reappears again today, but will also reduce the usage of the app functions to see if this stops or defers the battery drain warning.
BertL
Active Member
There is a lot more than just your occasional use of the app that uses the12V -- some you have more direct control over and can minimize, others not as much: Energy Savings and Always Connected On/Off Settings; Possible USB Phantom Playing; Every time you walk by your MS with your FOB and MS senses it opening doors and turning on some lights; Opening/Closing your charging port; Tesla polling your MS to pull up log data or downloading updates of various sort; Some people that inadvertently use computer apps to wake up their MS 7x24 to gather tracking data; and more. If you are doing things like turning on your air conditioning or playing around opening the pano "just because", well, those sort of decisions are of course on you in terms of using the battery.
IMHO, don't get paranoid over how much use of the Tesla App itself even a few times a day may impact your 12V battery -- it's likely minuscule compared to a lot of other things. Take the time to read this whole thread and a lot of others when you have the time to become more informed -- reading only a few posts in many of these threads can send up red alerts to the uninitiated. I've found that perspective counts and helps a lot not going off the deep end trying to do or not do things that just are not that necessary in the larger scheme of things. Instead, if you've seen "the 12V message" or another one that concerns you, next time, I'd offer its a lot more important to just note the date/time you saw it, then call your Service Center to report it. They can look through your logs to see what's going on, and either reassure you or set up an appointment to resolve whatever it may be.
PJFW8
Red Menace may hurt me
12 volt battery issues are common with Volt and Ford CMax and Fusion Energi models and some hybrids. I kept a small jump starter in my CMax and Fusion Energi. My 2010 Fusion Hybrid needed a battery at 11 months. My wife's Lexus RX400h was dead due to a failure. The Ford and Chevy forums document the issue. Plug-ins and EVs are hard on 12 volt auxiliary batteries. My guess is that systems hang up and drain the battery when the car is off. I solved the problem with my Fords by keeping them on the charger as is recommended. I condition charge my 12 volt battery every 6 months to 100% state of charge. When I get my model 3 I will keep it plugged in and add a jump start pack to my in car tool kit.There is a lot more than just your occasional use of the app that uses the12V -- some you have more direct control over and can minimize, others not as much: Energy Savings and Always Connected On/Off Settings; Possible USB Phantom Playing; Every time you walk by your MS with your FOB and MS senses it opening doors and turning on some lights; Opening/Closing your charging port; Tesla polling your MS to pull up log data or downloading updates of various sort; Some people that inadvertently use computer apps to wake up their MS 7x24 to gather tracking data; and more. If you are doing things like turning on your air conditioning or playing around opening the pano "just because", well, those sort of decisions are of course on you in terms of using the battery.
IMHO, don't get paranoid over how much use of the Tesla App itself even a few times a day may impact your 12V battery -- it's likely minuscule compared to a lot of other things. Take the time to read this whole thread and a lot of others when you have the time to become more informed -- reading only a few posts in many of these threads can send up red alerts to the uninitiated. I've found that perspective counts and helps a lot not going off the deep end trying to do or not do things that just are not that necessary in the larger scheme of things. Instead, if you've seen "the 12V message" or another one that concerns you, next time, I'd offer its a lot more important to just note the date/time you saw it, then call your Service Center to report it. They can look through your logs to see what's going on, and either reassure you or set up an appointment to resolve whatever it may be.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
We can hope Tesla may improve the vampire drain issue and/or maybe use a more durable battery for the 3.
What you don't say is how much you've driven your car over the two months you've had it. And what's not known is the state of charge of the 12V battery when it was delivered. I can imagine that a battery that wasn't very highly charged to start with and not much driving done over the two months might cause an alert. (Yes, I know it charges whenever the car wakes up, but no one really knows what the charging algorithm is.) The current battery in my car is about 2.5 years old and is working fine. (The first battery was replaced, but early production models had some bad batteries and the charging algorithm has changed.)
I wouldn't worry about using or not using the accessories.
I've put roughly 4000km on since I bought it. We did roughly 2000km in a week ending last Wednesday (Toronto-NJ and return), and not a hint of a problem. Yesterday's message was brief - went away almost immediately, and I proactively put the car on the charger after a drive. I usually charge it daily, the greatest abuse probably is activating the car to unlock as either my wife or I walk past it. I've not really seen anything in this thread that forms a strong basis of why this occurs as it seems that some people are able to get a couple of years out of a battery (or longer).
For now, I'll monitor and see if anything further comes of it.
For now, I'll monitor and see if anything further comes of it.
Am I wrong, but how will you access the jump start pack if it's in the car and you can't get in?
xrayangiodoc
Member
Interesting. My Model S was delivered April 2014 and the 12V battery has not been replaced after about 30K miles. Living in the Buffalo, NY area may have something to do with that. I believe that warmer climates are harder on lead acid batteries. No service center in the area. Closest in the US is Lyndhurst (Cleveland), OH. I paid for Ranger service and have yet to use it so when I do get the warning it will be interesting to see how big a deal it is to get them to come to me for service. Toronto Service Center is closer but they can't cross the border to provide service.
PJFW8
Red Menace may hurt me
There is a "hidden" key in the Ford Energi keyless remote. I assume there is a way to access a Tesla (hopefully)!
BertL
Active Member
Of course, there are no physical keys with a Tesla. If the FOB battery is dead, there is a procedure to place the dead FOB on the lower part of the passenger windshield which will cause the doors to open, then you can put the dead FOB in the center cup holders to Drive. OTOH if the 12V itself is dead, as you suspect, it's more difficult. Pre-refresh models like mine have 12V connection posts used for jumping behind the nose cone just under the lip of the hood on the driver's side. The same posts have been repositioned somewhere under the frunk with the April refresh, but I don't remember from older threads exactly where they are or how you access them if the 12V is dead (search may help). The latest owners manual (p130) simply says "...in the unlikely event that this occurs, you may need to jump start or replace the 12V battery before you can charge. In this situation, contact Tesla."
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