Near annual replacement of 12V battery is typical according to Tesla Service Tech

[henderrj]

Whether that is a possibility depends on where you live, if it has moderate temperatures year round. Recharging a non temperature controlled lithium ion battery while it is below freezing destroys it.

good point. You'll have to check with Sean over there to see if, in fact, their BMS keeps it from charging in that cold of weather. I also don't know if there is a heater built in. Again, I'm sure they could answer that.

I live in the Northwest where we hardly ever see freezing weather at all, and my car spends most of his life in the garage, when it's not being driven. I haven't heard how people are doing in places like boise, which isn't all that bad, or, say North dakota!

 

[Rocky_H]

good point. You'll have to check with Sean over there to see if, in fact, their BMS keeps it from charging in that cold of weather. I also don't know if there is a heater built in. Again, I'm sure they could answer that.

I would be almost certain it does not have any kind of heating built in. But I would predict with about 80% surety that it probably does have some kind of temperature monitoring to prevent charging when it is too cold. The batteries for my Zero motorcycle and Black & Decker leaf blower have that.

 

[henderrj]

I would be almost certain it does not have any kind of heating built in. But I would predict with about 80% surety that it probably does have some kind of temperature monitoring to prevent charging when it is too cold. The batteries for my Zero motorcycle and Black & Decker leaf blower have that.

Speculation is fun. I should probably actually contact them and find out!

 

[JRP3]

We began as BattMobile Batteries and under that name have been selling TESLA 12V Lithium batteries since 2015. We have batteries in every region of the world now and have an incredible track-record for performance and safety, even in the harshest/extreme regions

https://www.ohmmu.com/

Our in-house Thermotron chamber allows us to push the envelope with capabilities of reaching down to -70° Celsius (-94° F) on the low side and up to 185° Celsius (365° F) on the high side. Testing has been performed on all products we sell (per IEC 60068-2-1) so we can stand behind our batteries 100%.

https://www.ohmmu.com/battery-testing

 

[Kurzweil]

I have a 2013 MS which currently has the red C & D DCS-33UNCR battery installed. I acquired the car in Sept at 94K miles and thus have no knowledge of its history. On 6 Nov 20 and at 99,642 miles I got the "service 12 volt battery" alarm. I removed the battery and measured 12.27 volts on it, which is considered low.

I hooked it up to a battery charger that has a "repair" mode. I believe that this pulses the battery in order to reverse some of the sulfatation that is likely a normal part of battery aging and deterioration. The next morning the the process was "complete" and the battery was disconnected and allowed to rest. The final voltage was 12.84 vdc. Today is 23 Dec 20 and the current mileage is 104,200 so the rejuvenated battery has lasted six weeks and close 5000 miles. Not startling thua far but encouraging. I will report with date and current mileage when the alarm returns - and I am certain that it will. The charger I used is a Genius G3500.

I have question for the forum members: Would the daily use of a small charger stop the phantom drain that is reducing my standing range while apparently simultaneously wearing out the 12 volt battery? I seem to recall that about 3 amperes is required for the computers and radios.

I would probably leave it semi-permanently installed and hook it up daily the way Volvo owners used to plug in their engine block heaters.

I came to the TMS from the original Insight followed by both a Gen 2 and a Gen 3 Prius. So I have now completely drunk the Koolaide. Thanks.

 

[dhanson865]

I have a 2013 MS which currently has the red C & D DCS-33UNCR battery installed. I acquired the car in Sept at 94K miles and thus have no knowledge of its history. On 6 Nov 20 and at 99,642 miles I got the "service 12 volt battery" alarm. I removed the battery and measured 12.27 volts on it, which is considered low.

I hooked it up to a battery charger that has a "repair" mode. I believe that this pulses the battery in order to reverse some of the sulfatation that is likely a normal part of battery aging and deterioration. The next morning the the process was "complete" and the battery was disconnected and allowed to rest. The final voltage was 12.84 vdc. Today is 23 Dec 20 and the current mileage is 104,200 so the rejuvenated battery has lasted six weeks and close 5000 miles. Not startling thua far but encouraging. I will report with date and current mileage when the alarm returns - and I am certain that it will. The charger I used is a Genius G3500.

I have question for the forum members: Would the daily use of a small charger stop the phantom drain that is reducing my standing range while apparently simultaneously wearing out the 12 volt battery? I seem to recall that about 3 amperes is required for the computers and radios.

I would probably leave it semi-permanently installed and hook it up daily the way Volvo owners used to plug in their engine block heaters.

I came to the TMS from the original Insight followed by both a Gen 2 and a Gen 3 Prius. So I have now completely drunk the Koolaide. Thanks.

Georgia, gets hot. Feel free to run the Noco Genius all you want in the winter but I'd step back to once a month in the summer. Only do it when the car is cool.

Personally even in the winter I'd find anything more often than monthly to be a bother. But if I was trying to nurse a battery and didn't have money to replace it and my time had little value I could talk myself into running it on the smart charger quite often.

 

[manela]

Impressive contribution of knowledge on this thread; great reading. I know this is a Model S forum but, as a Model 3 owner, I’m hopeful that your deep experiences might be helpful to me and my somewhat odd circumstance.

My car will soon be parked for 6 months in my summer home's unheated garage for the long winter. It’s a very long time of non-use and, while I understand that charging the traction battery to 50+% is advisable — which I will do — I am concerned about the best way to try preserving the 12v battery.

From reading this thread (and other sources), it seems that I’ve got several options. Is there a strong argument for one of these?

Option 1: charge the HV battery with my 60 amp HPWC. With no daily use, daily charge time will obviously be very brief.

Option 2: charge the HV battery with standard 120v household current via the mobile connector. Same effect as Option 1, except that the daily charging process will last considerably longer.

Option 3: trickle charge (or pulse charge) my 12v battery.

Any thoughts about which of these (or other) options would be appreciated.

I am in a situation very similar to spark146. I have a Model 3, purchased in October 2018, which sits garaged and unused most of the year at our 2nd home, plugged into a NEMA 14-50 wall outlet. 2 months ago we resumed daily use of the car after being idle for about 10 months. Then a week ago we got the "12V battery in need of replacement" warning and a ranger came out and replaced the 12V battery under warranty. The car had 7K miles, and battery was 26 months old.

I'm considering connecting a CTEK battery tender for when we are away, but if there is an internal trickle charger built into all M3 vehicles, then this seems unnecessary and perhaps detrimental.

So spark146, what did you end up doing, and what has your experience been?

 

[manela]

I have some experience with this. I use a CTEK battery maintainer on my 2013 Model S. I was preparing to do the same on my Model 3, only to discover when I tried to connect the maintainer to the 3, it kept ticking and wouldn't lock in. I suspected the voltage was too high on the car. Pulled out my voltmeter and measured 15.8 volts where I was trying to connect (on the 12v system, of course). Tried measuring the voltage a couple of other times, and it was always in that range. So I figured that they were using a different way on the 3 to keep the 12 volt system charged up...

RandyS, any update on your Model 3 situation? 15.8V seems very high for charging a 12V battery.

 

[lloyds]

I have noticed that the Blackvue dashcam really drains down the battery.

 

[Fiver]

I have noticed that the Blackvue dashcam really drains down the battery.

I've run a Blackvue 650 2ch in 2 Tesla's for years now, and I've never had to replace my 12v battery in either car.

 

[supratachophobia]

I have noticed that the Blackvue dashcam really drains down the battery.

I have 2 590's and an after-market sub. I would say my 12v experience does not support that claim that it speeds up 12v failure.

 

[supratachophobia]

I have 2 590's and an after-market sub. I would say my 12v experience does not support that claim that it speeds up 12v failure.

Now, if I charge my laptop from the cig lighter, that will definitely get me a low 12v battery warning within 30min or so.

 

[Kurzweil]

I have a question for the forum members: I have just found an app named TezlabApp, used mostly to record trip data. Does this app have the capability to reduce abuse of the 12 volt battery by putting the car into deep(er) sleep? I now charge mostly at home, using a low night EV rate ($0.02 per kWh).

Incidentally, I was the user that desulfated my 12 volt at around 100K miles on 6 Nov. I am now at 106K (10 weeks later) and no "replace 12 V soon" warning has (so far) returned. Frankly, I expect it most any time now but drive the car (and charge) almost daily. I lose at least 3 to 4 miles of range daily and would like to reduce that, if possible. I understand that cars that are driven daily tend to have less 12 volt deterioration and perhaps less phantom drain? My 90% range is down from 216 to around 214 in 10,000 miles which seems reasonable and may be partially a simple need to recalibrate of course.

 

[JRP3]

New S/X are getting a lithium ion 12V battery!
37:55

 

[FlatSix911]

More information... Tesla's new Model S and Model X get rid of lead-acid 12v battery, move to Li-ion - Electrek

 

[henderrj]

So, will they make these batteries available to the current s&x when they come in for service?

 

[Snowstorm]

Near annual 12v lead acid replacement? I have had mine for almost 4 years with 130,000km and no issues yet. If it last say 5 years then that is on par with what I usually get with my previous gas cars.

 

[Only Trons]

Apparently 12V battery longevity varies, and I'm not certain why.

My 2013 S has had 2 replacements since purchased new in early 2013. The second replacement was accomplished by me using the Ohmmu LiOn batteries. I was going to let Tesla do the replacement but they canceled my service appointment twice due to lack of batteries, and I didn't want to wait longer.

My 2016 X, purchased in Sep 2016, still has the original 12V battery.

 

[arg]

There's a number of factors, including:

• Very early cars had a combination of poor quality batteries (almost all ended up replaced under warranty within a short period) and software issues in the management of the battery (charging voltage etc). It took at least a year from launch to work through these issues and arrive at a stable level.
• Cars up until some point around the time of the Model X launch and the facelift S (though I'm not sure of the exact timing) run all of the usage by onboard electronics while the car is 'off' through the 12V battery: 12V battery is charged, main traction battery is switched off and disconnected, car rests gradually running down the 12V battery, then the traction battery is re-energised for a short time to charge the 12V battery back to full. Hence on these cars the 12V battery cycles full-empty-full incurring significant wear and so a reasonable but limited life. Exact amount of wear depends how you use the car - this problem doesn't arise while driving, and the amount of power used while 'off' depends how deeply you let it sleep - "always connected" for faster response to the app uses more power than letting it go to deep sleep. Occasional software bugs have caused cars to get stuck 'awake' and using more power, often without the user noticing, and these cars will have shorter 12V battery life.
• More recent cars have a separate 12V output from the main traction battery to run the standby electronics, so the 12V battery should not see significant cycling.
• Cars from the date of the 'D' models onwards (whether or not you actually have AWD) have the 12V battery mounted in a location that's much easier to access for replacement. No effect on the battery lifetime, but significant effect on the labour cost when you do come to replace it.

 

[Jughead135]

More recent cars have a separate 12V output from the main traction battery to run the standby electronics, so the 12V battery should not see significant cycling.

Can you expand on this bit, please? My car is a 2020 MS LR+ (March build, I believe).

My understanding has been essentially your second bullet: the 12V keeps the computer happy while the car is parked, and the main battery only kicks in if climate controls are activated or the 12V runs down to the point where it needs to be charged. Once the latter happens, the big battery charges the little battery, then wash/rinse/repeat.

Not the case??