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need advice for Charging outlet for townhouse

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
7,718
6,250
Austin, TX
Also, i got one electrician on site this morning, he will send me a quote later this weekend. He also said i can install the Tesla wall charger too; however, i might need to get the electric power report to get proof the ESA inspection which it will not overload the breaker. He think 14-50 is more enough for daily drive. I total agree.

Received another company quotation this morning:

Thank you for reaching out to us for your charging needs. Please find a link to your estimate located at the bottom of this email.

Please note that I've quoted you on the installation of the NEMA 14-50 receptacle as this setup will charge your car at the maximum charge rate available from your panel which is 48km/hr. There is no advantage to purchasing the Tesla Wall Connector.

These are the steps that will follow after you receive your estimate:

1.) Email back confirming your acceptance of the estimate
2.) Schedule an installation date with us
3. If you do not already have your NEMA 14-50 adaptor, please --> order it here <--
4.) We install your Level II Charger, which can be used immediately

quote screenshot attached
View attachment 583563
Is it a Canada thing to put a 40a breaker on it? Why not wire for 50a? I know the UMC with the car will only do 32a, but the Gen1 UMC or other manufacturers will support 40a charging on 50a circuit.
 

yesman686

Member
Aug 30, 2020
27
9
Toronto
Is it a Canada thing to put a 40a breaker on it? Why not wire for 50a? I know the UMC with the car will only do 32a, but the Gen1 UMC or other manufacturers will support 40a charging on 50a circuit.

i only have 100amp breaker, i dont think 50a will be overloaded
 

yesman686

Member
Aug 30, 2020
27
9
Toronto
For comparison, doing it myself I spent about $375 (+$120 for permit) adding a small sub panel and running 8/3 ~10m to the outlet. That's probably a fair price if wire has to be fished through walls and the run is fairly long, but is a bit steep if your main panel is in the garage with a 2m run to your outlet.

i have to go through the ceiling and the wall which could be a firewall (garage). i dont think i can do it.
 

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
211
243
Calgary
Is it a Canada thing to put a 40a breaker on it? Why not wire for 50a? I know the UMC with the car will only do 32a, but the Gen1 UMC or other manufacturers will support 40a charging on 50a circuit.
We often have 100A main panels, and 8/3 is quite a bit cheaper than 6/3.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
7,718
6,250
Austin, TX
We often have 100A main panels, and 8/3 is quite a bit cheaper than 6/3.

On a 20 ft run, the wire would only be about $25 more. Of course it's a bit harder to work with so it might run up the labor. Larger wire would give a bit more flexibility in the future and a bit less voltage drop. But I agree, it isn't that important. Esp on a 100a panel.
 
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pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
211
243
Calgary
On a 20 ft run, the wire would only be about $25 more. Of course it's a bit harder to work with so it might run up the labor. Larger wire would give a bit more flexibility in the future and a bit less voltage drop. But I agree, it isn't that important. Esp on a 100a panel.
I don't think the voltage drop losses between #6 and #8 will reach the break even point until you close in on 1 million km of charging.
 

erocgordon

New Member
Sep 10, 2020
1
2
Waterloo
Hello all,

i'm planning to get model Y and i test drive it 2 weeks ago, i like it and now my plan is does it possible to setup the charging outlet (NEMA 14-50) in my garage.

my breaker is 100AMP, i checked all label as follow: electric stove(40AMP) , dryer(30AMP) , AC(30AMP). I contacted with the management and it is not allow upgarde to 200amp.

i contacted one of the electrician he recommend to setup 40amp 14-50 outlet for the car charger in garage.

My question is it will overloaded the breaker if i turn on all at once? for example. i cooking with stove and turn on the dryer, at the mean time the AC kick in while i charging the car at evening?

My friend (model X owner) recommended plug in the charger and setup the charging time / turn on the charging while you go sleep, so nothing is running at the same time. Can i do it on the mobile app? the way to enter the garage is outside of my house, i don't want to running to plug in the charger in the winter time (possible -40'C here in canada).

can anyone share your charging experience if you can't update to 200amp?
Thank you

PS: my breaker is located inside the house

I had a 40A circuit installed in my breaker with a NEMA 14-50 outlet. I live in a condo and just had the electrician run the cable outside and down to my car in the garage. Haven't noticed any issues with the breaker tripping or being overloaded... since the fix.

The electrician had installed a ground fault breaker in my panel but because I am using the mobile connector to charge, it also has a ground fault within the connector, which caused the breaker to trip constantly. So if you're going to use the mobile connector and have any issues with the breaker tripping take a look at the panel and see if they installed a ground fault.

Hope that saves anyone some headaches in the future.
 
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MD-2000

Member
May 1, 2019
551
370
Winnipeg
That either leaves a problem at your panel or improper installation of the plug(s). You need to get an electrician out to look at it asap before you burn down your house.

The nameplate on my oven is 66A, but that includes 2x 15A plugs, warming zone and warming drawer. I'm pretty sure I occasionally draw 36A on a 40A breaker, although now that I know how the burners are laid out, I'll be less likely to do that in the future.

Yes, the melt-down was bad connection on the red wire, not screwed down tight enough. It melted the plastic on the socket, but the other wires were fine. The wires need to be extremely firmly screwed down. The Hubell 9450 that I use now has a more secure clamp for each wire. I believe the 14-50 plug wall charger has issues, which is why it was discontinued.

36A on a 40A breaker better be very occasional - code is, IIRC, that a circuit should not draw more than 80% of nominal max for extended periods. For a 40A circuit, that's 32A. This is also why I swapped 8Ga (and 40A breaker) to 6Ga cable when I put the 50A to replace the 40A. (All work done by electricians. I'm not messing with that stuff...)

I should reiterate I schedule charging for 1AM so it's highly unlikely I'll be running dryer, dishwasher, toaster, kettle and oven at that time of the night. Just (seasonally) the air conditioner. We don't have electric heaters.
 

ai4px

Wes
May 2, 2018
447
478
Sumter SC USA
Hello all,

My question is it will overloaded the breaker if i turn on all at once? for example. i cooking with stove and turn on the dryer, at the mean time the AC kick in while i charging the car at evening?

I created a home brew EVSE from the shell of a Siemens EVSE and a EVSE controller card made in Netherlands called SmartEVSE. It has the ability to measure current used by other devices and adjust the car’s draw dynamically. We used it when my wife had a MS and I drove a Bolt EV. I think it would be possible to install a current sensing tap around the main feed to your house and program SmartEVSE to do the load sharing.
Another option is to install a Raspberry PI zero inside a Gen 2 UMC and create a MQTT server in your house.. but that is rather complex for what you are trying to do.
 

ai4px

Wes
May 2, 2018
447
478
Sumter SC USA
Of course another option is to just charge at 240v 12amps.... 12 amps isn’t going to harm a thing and will get you a surprising number of miles (or km) over night.
 

ai4px

Wes
May 2, 2018
447
478
Sumter SC USA
Hey, what if you could bypass your 100amp panel box entirely? What if you had an EVSE that plugged into your meter base?
 

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ai4px

Wes
May 2, 2018
447
478
Sumter SC USA
Please do not attempt this, unless sanctioned by your utility. They own the meter, and *don't think kindly* of those who open it and add devices or bypass it.
Every electric utility I've checked with from Alabam Electric to GA, SC and NC has said it would be fine on their meter. Only Progress Energy in South Carolina objected saying it would be an encumberance to access the meter base for troubleshooting.... that was a phone conversation and I never actually got to show it to the engineer in person. Everyone who has seen it in person says it is acceptable on their meterbase.
 

ai4px

Wes
May 2, 2018
447
478
Sumter SC USA
Please do not attempt this, unless sanctioned by your utility. They own the meter, and *don't think kindly* of those who open it and add devices or bypass it.
Naturally, your electric company must cut the seal on the meter and install this EVSE. Takes only one minute. Aside from having to cut the seal, they simply don't want untrained people around exposed meter sockets. The linemen are glad to do it. Heck many are intrigued.
 

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
211
243
Calgary
Every electric utility I've checked with from Alabam Electric to GA, SC and NC has said it would be fine on their meter. Only Progress Energy in South Carolina objected saying it would be an encumberance to access the meter base for troubleshooting.... that was a phone conversation and I never actually got to show it to the engineer in person. Everyone who has seen it in person says it is acceptable on their meterbase.

How is the circuit protected in this case? I can't find a layman's guide to residential transformers but it doesn't look like there are any fuses between the secondary side and the customers main panel, so you could theoretically overload and damage the feeder wire tapping directly off the meter socket.
 

DMC-Orangeville

85D and John Deere 5100E
Feb 14, 2015
938
1,159
Orangeville ON Canada
Every electric utility I've checked with from Alabam Electric to GA, SC and NC has said it would be fine on their meter. Only Progress Energy in South Carolina objected saying it would be an encumberance to access the meter base for troubleshooting.... that was a phone conversation and I never actually got to show it to the engineer in person. Everyone who has seen it in person says it is acceptable on their meterbase.
My experience with Canadian utilities has been far different. In past, they wouldn't allow meter box surge suppression, and others. @mknox Opinion here(?) (He used to run a fairly large public utility in Ontario)
 

ai4px

Wes
May 2, 2018
447
478
Sumter SC USA
How is the circuit protected in this case? I can't find a layman's guide to residential transformers but it doesn't look like there are any fuses between the secondary side and the customers main panel, so you could theoretically overload and damage the feeder wire tapping directly off the meter socket.
This device has a breaker inside rated at 10k amp interrupting rating. There's a lot of math involving the impedance of the feeder from the transformer, type of wire used for that feeder and the kVa of the transformer. But 10k amp interrupting works in 99% of settings. Your electric company will tell you if 10ka is appropriate. Check the rating of the main breaker in your house if in doubt.

Contact me at 803 622 6106 if you have questions.
 

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