Need advice on 2016 Model S 90D

[FatherTo1]

Nope. The pictures are clear enough that I can tell you (almost) all the options on this car. First I'll start by answering your questions:

the car is an AP1/MCU1 car which is called Autopilot with Convenience, its not enhanced autopilot.

The car DOES have Premium Sound (at this time its still called Ultra-hifi) you can tell because if you brighten the image of the trunk, the right side is blocked off. this is where the subwoofer sits for the premium sound, if you didn't have this option this would be an empty space

You do NOT have air suspensions because in the settings picture there is not tab for "Suspension" so these are just standard coils.

The seats are NOT next gen, these are TEXTILE 1st gen seats btw, not leather. Just compare a newer seat with this one and you can see its styled differently. I'm actually surprised whoever built this car didn't get atleast the leather seats, seems like a conscientious choice to get textile (easier to clean?) instead of a cost saving measurement.

You have a Sunroof which was an option vs the base body colored roof or the glass roof. (I prefer the glass roof personally because it wont leak or make noise and just looks cool as a single panel of glass) Nice if you want to get a roof rack, which I wished the glass one could do

These have 19" cyclone wheels which were also an option. Base wheels are the slipstream wheels

Only thing I cant tell thats left is the cold weather package, id need to look at the AC screen.

I do these to hope the rumor that you cant tell what options a tesla has dies down. With enough pictures you can easily tell everything.

Welcome, Rick! Great to see a former/fellow ClubLexus member in here. Heinzcatsup hit it on the head. I would also add that the rear doesnt appear to have cupholders nor USB ports, if that's important to you -- it must have just missed the July 2016 cutover.

Although I prefer the vegan leather, the 2018 that I test drove had textile and I found them very comfortable, supportive, and grippy. My concern would be spills seeping through the fabric. Below are comparison photos from the 2018. You'll notice the seat design is very different than 2016.

I would strongly recommend finding a car with MCU2. Not only is the interface more responsive, but you're assured of Sentry Mode recording to USB. Cars before September 2017 only record Sentry Mode to Tesla servers, which no one has been able to access. Of course, you can also add your own aftermarket dashcams, but you'll need to add several to equal what current Sentry Mode offers.

I am not sure if the one you test drove a few months ago was a Raven (post May 2019 build date). If so, please keep in mind the Raven air suspension rides much smoother than the pre-Raven air suspension, and smoother than the coil setup. I mention this because you're coming from a super smooth LS 600 experience.

Lastly, I would ask Vroom for a screen photo of the Climate screen to verify seat heaters. Also ask for a screenshot of the battery percentage and range (they just toggle the setting) -- divide range with current battery percentage to get an idea of what the range would be at full charge. The 90D is rated at 294 miles but the 90-pack is plagued with battery degradation. Maybe ask for a photo of beneath the passenger front tire area to see the sticker on the battery pack. This will tell you whether you have an early A/B series battery or a better D-series 90 pack. Best of luck on your search, my friend. -AYCE (aka FatherTo1)

Textile seats on a 2018 Model S 75D:

Other notes:

1. Premium Rear Seat design began July 22, 2017. There have been four generations of seat designs for the Model S:

2. All-glass roof was an option since 2017 and became standard Nov 2018. The panoramic roof option has a slide away sunroof but there are some reports of water and air leaks. Just test it out if you want the slide away roof.

3. Rear cupholders were added after June 2016.

4. MCU 2 (CPU upgrade) began March 2018.

5. Facelift (vs black nosecone) was mid 2016.

 

[Destiny1701]

FYI the dark blue for 2016 is actually an ocean blue which is a cross between electric blue and indigo blue. The pictures at the dealer make it same darker.

attached is a pic of Ocean blue from my previous 2016 90D in sunlight. Just so you are aware of what your getting.

AP1 and coil suspension are great however if you are used to the Lexus LS ride feel and whisper quiet pin drop cabin...there is no Tesla today that can match that! You will be trading luxury for technology and it’s an adjustment. I know as I was also a Lexus driver for many years and what I do miss on rougher roads is how Lexus would soak it up...as well being able listen to the mark levinson sound system at 120kph with literally no wind or tire noise in the cabin.

But the drive on a Tesla is incredible and will make you forget about everything else...more or less lol.

I also had textile seats in my 2016 and we miss them for what it’s worth. Textile heated up within 20 seconds vs minutes for leather, no slipping or burning on hot sunny days and the two tone style was appealing.

Looks like a great vehicle...good luck!

 

[RiknChar]

Thanks for the continuing outstanding advice! Great to hear from you father-to-1! This forum seems nearly as active as our Lexus LS forum, which is pretty tough to beat!

I have my eye on another Tesla that's a short drive away from me in Sioux Falls. It's a 2018 75D with 22k miles. Black on black (not my favorite, but it could look pretty sweet with blacked-out windows). AP1, nice shape. Prior rental, though, and bought at auction by the current seller. They've had it since September and are itching to make a deal before it heads back to auction. Asking $54,900 today, but I'd probably work hard to get it at $50k or less.

Here's a link: 2018 Used Tesla Model S For Sale Sioux Falls SD | VIN:5YJSA1E27JF248867

I did get lots of close-up photos of everything from the sales manager. It does have heated seats (so does that mean it has the sub-zero package?). I don't know if it has the upgraded stereo. It first went into service in April of 2018. It has the air suspension and AP1 (I believe).

Any thoughts on this one vs the blue 2016 90D?

Thanks again!

 

[Destiny1701]

Ok so it definitely has AP2 which is good news for you. You can tell from the camera on the B pillar...dead giveaway.

Odd that they didn’t provide any pics of the main screen showing the various functions. You could ask them to show you the suspension setup, the music settings to see if it shows ‘Dolby’ which means you have enhanced sound package, and the heated seats screen so you can see if it has all 5 heated. Base package will still have heated front but not rear.

Seems to have the updated textile seats.
Does it come with sunroof option or glass?

If black is not your thing, you can always have it wrapped whatever colour you wish! 3M deep blue metallic is a 99% match to the Tesla blue from that 90D!

 

[dannycamps]

I have my eye on another Tesla that's a short drive away from me in Sioux Falls. It's a 2018 75D with 22k miles. Black on black (not my favorite, but it could look pretty sweet with blacked-out windows). AP1, nice shape

This one minimally has AP2 but more likely AP 2.5. A dead giveaway is you can see the side camera in the turn marker near the front door. Depending on the build date (if after March 2018), it will also have the MCU2 screen which gives a lot more functionality and faster/more fluid response times.

Also re: subzero, all have heated front seats. Subzero adds heater rear, heated steering wheel, and heater wiper arms I believe.

Better car in my opinion.

 

[RiknChar]

Thanks for the thoughts on the black 75D! Sounds like the consensus is that this is a better overall deal than the blue 90D... I do like the fact that it's 2 years newer with fewer miles. I don't fully understand the difference between AP1 and AP2 (or AP2.5), but it sounds useful.

Here are some photos the dealer sent me that might give more tips to the options...

 

[dannycamps]

Okay so here is what I see:

1. This car has the MCU2 (2nd generation screen/system with a faster processor, more memory, etc...) You can tell this because Caraoke (in-car karaoke app - one of my favorite things) is present. This is a good thing and you will also have access to things like theater mode (Netflix, Youtube, streaming video from the web browser, etc..), better games, etc...

2. Seeing as it's MCU2, it also means it is definitively AP 2.5 hardware HOWEVER it appears that only basic AP is activated which is essentially autosteer and traffic aware adaptive cruise control. You would need to order the FSD upgrade (software unlock) from Tesla if you want the full capability but that may not be worth it to you (and you can do it at any point in the future).

3. The MCU screen border appears to be yellowing. This is a VERY common problem with most 2016 and later MCU screens due to an issue with how Tesla incorrectly cured the glue holding the glass to the touch layer. It is strictly a cosmetic issue and does not impede functionality of the screen. A Tesla service center will correct this using a UV treatment under warranty or there is a DIY solution (search the forum for screen yellowing).

Given it's so close in price, definitely the better deal.

 

[.jg.]

Here's a link to the car I'm talking about (I did put a deposit down to hold it while I'm considering it):
Used 2016 Tesla Model S For Sale ($49,890) | Vroom

That link gives the VIN as 5YJSA1E22GF147034. Googling that VIN turns up this link
TeslaScout- 5YJSA1E22GF147034 - MODEL_S
...with this option code list:
$BP00, $ADPX2, $GLFR, $AU01, $DA02, $APD2, $X028, $BTX4, $BS00, $BC0B, $CH05, $CW02, $COUS, $X040, $IDBA, $X027, $DRLH, $AF02, $FG02, $DCF0, $FR03, $X007, $X011, $PI01, $IX01, $X001, $LP01, $LT3B, $MI01, $X037, $MDLS, $DV4W, $X025, $X003, $ZCST, $PPSB, $PA00, $PS01, $PK00, $X031, $PX00, $PF00, $X044, $TM00, $BR02, $RENA, $RFP2, $USSB, $X013, $S01B, $ME02, $QPBT, $SR01, $SP00, $X021, $SC04, $SU00, $TP03, $TR00, $TIG4, $WTX1, $DSH7, $UTAB, $WTTB, $WR00, $YFFC, $MT90A

Plugging that into Tesla detail for turns up this list:

Type 2 cable (not sure about this)
Final Assembly Freemont
Premium Audio
Auto Pilot 1
Autopilot with convenience features
Battery Badge
90kWh Battery
Standard production
Black Brake Caliper
Standard Charger
Subzero pack with heated steering wheel
US Car
Dark Ash
Illuminated door handles
Left hand drive
Hepa Filter
Exterior Light Pack
Autopilot convenience
Front seats (detail TBC)
LED Daytime running lights
Homelink
Premium pack
Extended leather trim
Power Tailgate
Premium interior Light
LT3B
2016 (Facelift if MS)
Powerfold mirrors
Model S
4 wheel drive
Nav Maps
ZCST
Deep Blue
Parcel shelf
No parking sensors
Keyless/Passive entry
Not performance plus version
Phone docking station
General production car
BR02
North America Car
Panoramic roof
US Safety kit in black
Satellite Radio
Black textile seats
Memory seats
Black textile interior
Standard second row seating
Standard coil suspension
Technology package inc Autopilot
TIG4
19 with Primacy
Alcantara Dash Accent
Black alcantara headliner
19 Silver Cyclone
WR00
Centre console
90 with All wheel drive

 

[SO16]

Another thing to keep in mind since you live in Nebraska is the cold. I have a 2017 S90D with AP2 HW 2.0/MCU1 originally rated for 294 miles. After 3 years and 44k miles, it is now at 271. (Degradation happens the most during the first couple years then slows down.) I live in Michigan. Cold is a factor. Plan on about 30% less range in the cold. Especially more if cold soaked (not plugged in before driving). You will want to set the car to be ready to drive by a certain time so the car is all warmed up. I personally think range is king. I find myself wanting to take it on more road trips and having range can be a good thing. I don’t like having to turn down the heat in order to make a destination.

I’m hoping one day that Tesla will provide an upgrade path of MCU1 to 2. Elon has certainly hinted at it. But honestly I don’t find MCU1 that bad. Just don’t use the browser and everything else seems to be sufficient. Just not as snappy as MCU2. Of course as others have stated, MCU2 does give you access to more features like the higher CPU intensive games and services like Netflix and Karaoke.

As far as the sunroof goes, so far, I love it. Haven’t had any problems “yet”.

 

[ekendahl]

The sub zero package include heated REAR seats, heated steering wheel, heated washer nostrils and extra heated glass area where wipers rest.

you can confirm this by clicking on the fan and seeing that you have options to heat steering wheels and rear seats.

Standard cars do have heated front passenger seats.

it’s not a must have package even in cold but my kids like the heated seats.

The new car you’re looking at doesn’t have FSD enabled. It will cost you $7000 to enable it when you want it (and prices _might_ go up).

 

[ekendahl]

I think 55 for that 2018 is a pretty good price.

 

[ekendahl]

I saw several black 2018 for sale at car dealer auctions. They where prices equipped similarly. They where all from Enterprise Car Rental. I don’t see that as a big problem but be aware. This dealer might have bought one from the same auction site. But these car didn’t have the sub zero package.

I was debating 51k for low mileage 2016 (with premium interior and lighting, sub-zero and FSD) or the 2018 at 55k + 7k and lacking premium interior and sub zero.

There wasn’t a clear winner in my mind. By better half felt 51 was already pushing our budget so that settled it.

 

[RiknChar]

Wow! This forum is AWESOME! Thanks so much to all who have contributed to improving my knowledge base!

So it seems clear, in terms of technology, that the 2018 black 75D is the the winner, with the AP2.5 and MCU2 upgrades (especially since the price is roughly equal). I like the ability to add FSD at a later date if that becomes a good thing. Does the basic autopilot included with this car do a good job of steering around curves on the interstate? What do I lose with basic autopilot? Automatic lane-change ability? Lane-change using the turn-signal?

So is this car configured roughly the same as a brand new Model S would be, auto-pilot-wise? I'm still somewhat thinking maybe I should just buy a brand new one to get the new, smoother Raven air ride and the greatly expanded range (390 miles)? It looks like the new price starts at around $80k, but that includes the cold-weather package, leather seats, latest gadgetry... Hmmm... I didn't see an option on the new models for the upgraded audio system, is that standard now?

I'm going to go test drive a new Model S and a new Model 3 today in Kansas City, so this may answer some of my questions. We'll almost certainly get a Model 3 for my wife...

Thanks again for all the advice! Rick

 

[dannycamps]

New cars include premium audio and subzero package as standard features. The AP on the 2018 is comparable to what a new car without FSD will have. I believe (but not 100% certain) that you will get autosteer but not auto lane change. I don't know if auto lane change via the turn signal would be included but be sure to ask while you are there.

The primary difference is the Raven suspension, motors, range, and tempest wheels.

Beware when driving the Model S as it may just further fuel your lust for one. Be sure to try a launch or two (or three )

 

[ekendahl]

The car will keep in it’s lane and, I believe, slow for sharp turns just as FSD works.
My understanding is that it will not change lange for you. For that you would have to take over. With FSD even when not on Navigate on Autopilot you can turn on you blinker and the car will do the lane change when it’s safe. I like this feature.

if you decide on buying a new car then please use someone’s reference link. Mine is Earn Free Supercharging Miles or a $250 Cash Award. It gives you and me 1000 miles of free super charging.

There are no major upgrades from 2018 to 2020. But a new model S would have much more range (and acceleration). They have a new seat that seems to be mostly a small tweak. They switched to more efficient default wheels last week that are similar to model 3. I like the added range of the wheels but suspect that was mostly a cost cutting move.

 

[ekendahl]

The Model 3 is priced much better than the S. It’s a really nice car and more fun, but less luxurious to drive. If I didn’t have kids and dogs then I would buy the 3. We drove the long range 3 from Boston to VT and we loved it. The speed of Super Charge is amazing! That said the seats are not as good as the S. It’s noicer and quite bumpy and doesn’t offer air suspension.

If you want a ride comparable to BMW or upper end Lexus then you want the S. The Tesla will be higher tech but lower quality than these cars - but going green and the convenience an EV for day to day driving makes it much better.

 

[FatherTo1]

@RiknChar, I am glad you're considering a new Raven. I was refraining from suggesting to up the budget because that's not helpful to everyone. When I did my research last year, the more I learned, the more I came to the conclusion that a new model would meet all of my needs best (ride quality, range, features).

Like others have stated above, many of the options of earlier models are now standard equipment on new cars, plus you'll get free Supercharging (for what that's worth). I agree that if you live in cold climates then more range is a must. Also, go with standard wheel size or lose 10% range with larger wheels. My friend already regrets his Model 3 Standard Range Plus because the 250-mile range isn't quite enough to get him from Sacramento to San Francisco and back home without charging (200-mile roundtrip). I think a lot of it has to do with his driving style, but range is still king.

Also, with version 2020.4.1 (or maybe even 2019.40.50.7), you can go to the Software screen and tap "additional vehicle information" and it will show a summary of the car's features/options. In this case "Premium" audio is the Ultra Hi-Fidelity Sound (which is quite disappointing and a far cry from the Mark Levinson in the Lexus LS):

Another reason I recommend a new car is that it's not all that much more than a used one. Our inventory 2019 Raven Standard Range was $72,500 out the door, with TTL, and accounting for all Fed, State, and local utility rebates, and selling of the 21-inch wheels. That would be like a $66K sales price. Granted, that is still a good 10K-11K difference over a used Model S, but you'll get all of the latest hardware, 10% more range, full warranty, free Supercharging, better ride quality, and minimal battery degradation (minimal because no Tesla returns the rated full range when new, there's always a loss of 5-10 miles right off the bat). Would I rather have the faster-charging Model S Long Range (now 390-mile range)? Heck yes! But a comparably equipped Long Range, at the time, would have been at least $17K more out-the-door. There will be more depreciation with a new car but I think ultimately you'll be better served with a Raven model.

Let us know what you think of the Model 3 and Raven S. The Raven models are fast but it's not the same sensation of speed as the pre-Ravens. The pre-Raven motor "hits" harder and snaps your neck back whereas the Raven S 0-60 is faster but delivers it in a more refined, smoother manner. I miss the neck-snapping sensation though, lol.

 

[Ostrichsak]

FSD is a dream. People that are investing in it are investing in vaporware. Even in a few years when it's a thing I'm not going to be the beta tester of that program. No thanks. Let someone else pay all the money to risk their life to beta test some big company's new whiz-bang software feature. After the car has depreciated and they've got the kinks worked out I'll swoop in and pay half or 1/3 what they paid for it new and own it at a substantially lower rate of depreciation moving forward.

If you listen to people long enough on this forum they'll talk you into buying a $100k car. People tend to value some things WAY too much and I can tell you that I've been MORE than happy buying used Tesla Model S in that $40k-$50k price range. Let someone else convince themselves they need a $100k car and take that $50k-$60k depreciation hit to have 10% improved driving experience. Spend the money elsewhere. That $50k car will still be 5x the car of anything else you've driven. It's a case of diminishing returns on your investment and you'll never convince me that a new Tesla is worth it for fractionally better options.

Also, OP, you need to check your private messages and also possible enable your email notification for new private messages.

 

[dannycamps]

FSD is a dream. People that are investing in it are investing in vaporware. Even in a few years when it's a thing I'm not going to be the beta tester of that program. No thanks

If you listen to people long enough on this forum they'll talk you into buying a $100k car.

No one here has suggested FSD as a "type in your destination and then go take a nap in the back seat while the car whisks you there" option. We are using the terminology Tesla uses for clarity with the actual functionality present today (e.g. Nav on Auto, auto lane change, smart summon, park assist, etc...). True FSD is probably not going to happen for another decade (or two) as there are too many idiots on the road that the cars will not be able to account for.

It's pretty simple - you get the most car you can for your money. In my experience that has always been achieved by purchasing used but sometimes it's not practical. Case-in-point: I've started looking at a Model X. I would love to get a used one but there is no way I could effectively live with the rated 255 mile range (235 with degradation) of the X 90D. In a year or two when we start seeing some 100Ds showing up as used, I will probably look to buy but if I had to buy today and the Model X was my only option, I'd have to consider buying new.

 

[Ostrichsak]

No one here has suggested FSD as a "type in your destination and then go take a nap in the back seat while the car whisks you there" option. We are using the terminology Tesla uses for clarity with the actual functionality present today (e.g. Nav on Auto, auto lane change, smart summon, park assist, etc...). True FSD is probably not going to happen for another decade (or two) as there are too many idiots on the road that the cars will not be able to account for.

It's pretty simple - you get the most car you can for your money. In my experience that has always been achieved by purchasing used but sometimes it's not practical. Case-in-point: I've started looking at a Model X. I would love to get a used one but there is no way I could effectively live with the rated 255 mile range (235 with degradation) of the X 90D. In a year or two when we start seeing some 100Ds showing up as used, I will probably look to buy but if I had to buy today and the Model X was my only option, I'd have to consider buying new.

I think you and I are largely in agreement so there's no reason to defend the use of FSD as I wasn't saying it was being used incorrectly. Quite the contrary, I'm just saying that the idea itself that SO many are buying into is vaporware. It doesn't exist and you seem to agree that it will be an awful long time before it does. I know what was meant and I was more talking about the hardware associated with FSD as a software idea and how much more expensive the hardware versions are that are "capable" of it.

I was just pointing out that often times when someone comes here asking for opinions on what to buy the bulk of Model 3 owners are quick to chime in about FSD and getting a car capable of FSD and how it's SO worth the "investment" to get a car capable of FSD. I think that's terrible advice and I've already owned four different Model S cars & I fully expect to own double that or more before true FSD (or any real reason to own the hardware) is even on the radar.