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Need advice on data retrieval after accident with lying Fireman

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
Hey all-
I'm new to this forum and am seeking some advice for a terrible situation I'm in.

Last month I was driving my 2017 Model 3 to a hike in California. There was a narrow 2 lane road (one lane in each direction) going downhill to the trailhead parking lot. As I was driving down, I saw a Fire department utility truck driving towards me. I pulled over my car to the right as far as I could, close to an adjacent rock wall and completely stopped. The fireman completely stopped his truck as well. Adjacent to the truck was a cliff/drop off. It seemed like it would be a very tight fit and I honestly thought the fireman would either back up into the parking lot right behind him or instruct me to back up so we could make some room to pass each other. However, after a few seconds, the fireman decided to drive forward and try to squeeze past me.

He ended up scraping my rear bumper and quarter panel, causing about $10,000 of damage according to the insurance estimate. I was pretty upset but the fireman assured me that "we'd get you car taken care of" and to meet him at the top of the hill to wait for the police.

When the police arrived, they took his statement and informed me that he is claiming HE was completely stopped and I drove into him. I am completely shocked that a fireman would blatantly lie about the accident. I honestly never expected it. There were 3 other fireman on the truck when it happened but they all left the scene of the accident before they could give a statement. I am getting on my insurance adjuster to get statements from them but I am not very hopeful that they will tell the truth either.

Unfortunately, I did not have a USB plugged in to capture dash cam footage (I was using both outlets to charge two devices, lesson learned). I was wondering if there is any way to pull timestamped telemetry data from the car that would confirm that my car was stationary when the truck hit me.

I sent a data privacy request to Tesla through the website but it shows no data during the time of the accident and the excel cells for Accelerator Pedal position/vehicle speed/etc are all blank. Does anyone know of any other options I have? I've talked to my local tesla dealer and they haven't been helpful. At this point, its about the Principle and I don't want this scumbag to get away with it. Cost is not an issue. Thank you in advance for any insight or advice!
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,155
15,077
New Mexico
I sent a data privacy request to Tesla through the website but it shows no data during the time of the accident and the excel cells for Accelerator Pedal position/vehicle speed/etc are all blank.
Is that expected if the car is stationary ?

Your adjuster should remind the other witnesses that a Tesla has camera and sensors galore. They should think twice before giving their statement since lying cannot be good for their job prospects. You could also try to have the police and the worker's boss present during the dispositions. Turn up the heat
 
Last edited:

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,701
8,483
Riverside Co. CA
If you didnt have a USB plugged in, there is likely no data for you to get, and no proof that (for example) you are not the person lying, both here and when you reported the information to insurance / police.

I am not saying you are lying, I am saying there is no proof either way, and a forum post saying "the fireman is lying" does not necessarily make it true, any more than the fireman saying "they were moving, not me" is true or not.

You have no way to prove anything, so the advice to let your insurance company handle it is basically all you can do.
 

Sam1

Member
Sep 11, 2019
937
840
NV
At this point there's no video. And not to say you should've done this or that because I'm certain you've already beat yourself up over the situation, but next time if there's no video, make sure to take photos before moving the vehicles.

As the others said, you're probably going to have to eat responsibility at this point and file a claim with your own insurance.
 
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Donuts

Member
Oct 11, 2020
31
10
Canada
Look at your data again but with the time difference from your time zone to UTC. The data is time stamped in UTC so it won’t make sense until you adjust for the time difference.
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,367
3,072
Maine
Unfortunate, but you should have taken photos.

Was this on a bend? Anyway, the vehicle going downhill has the right of way over a vehicle going uphill. The utility truck should have backed up.
 
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iwannam3

Member
Aug 8, 2016
902
1,273
Washington
Unfortunate, but you should have taken photos.

Was this on a bend? Anyway, the vehicle going downhill has the right of way over a vehicle going uphill. The utility truck should have backed up.
In Oregon I was taught the vehicle going up hill has the right of way. Backing up downhill is the most dangerous move. In the drum brake era, the brakes were not self energizing moving backward and the car could easily loose control.

Opposite in CA When practical, it is usually considered better for the vehicle going downhill to yield the right of way by stopping at a wide spot. The reason seems to be that it may be harder for the vehicle going up to get started again. At least in California, it is also the vehicle going downhill that must back up, if it is too late to stop at a wide spot.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
Is that expected if the car is stationary ?

Your adjuster should remind the other witnesses that a Tesla has camera and sensors galore. They should think twice before giving their statement since lying cannot be good for their job prospects. You could also try to have the police and the worker's boss present during the dispositions. Turn up the heat

The excel cells for Vehicle speed etc are blank all the way through, even at times when the car was in motion. It's as if it didnt record this data at all.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
My suggestion is to turn it into your insurance and let them battle it out.
As you posted, unfortunately the main tool at your disposal, video, was taken out of service.

Insurance is involved currently and I am filing a civil claim myself since I am an attorney. I am going to make it as difficult as possible for them and refuse to just roll over and let them screw me without a fight
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
If you didnt have a USB plugged in, there is likely no data for you to get, and no proof that (for example) you are not the person lying, both here and when you reported the information to insurance / police.

I am not saying you are lying, I am saying there is no proof either way, and a forum post saying "the fireman is lying" does not necessarily make it true, any more than the fireman saying "they were moving, not me" is true or not.

You have no way to prove anything, so the advice to let your insurance company handle it is basically all you can do.

I mentioned that the fireman is lying because any retrievable data would back up my story. I have the truth on my side. Trust me, I know telling the insurance companies that the fireman is a liar is not very helpful haha. It was to set the context of this post so I could get some advice on why I needed the data.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
At this point there's no video. And not to say you should've done this or that because I'm certain you've already beat yourself up over the situation, but next time if there's no video, make sure to take photos before moving the vehicles.

As the others said, you're probably going to have to eat responsibility at this point and file a claim with your own insurance.

As soon as the collision happened, my passenger got out of the car (I couldn't open the door since I was adjacent to the rock wall) and took photos of the collision, before either of us moved our vehicles. They are not helpful in determining who hit who first.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
Look at your data again but with the time difference from your time zone to UTC. The data is time stamped in UTC so it won’t make sense until you adjust for the time difference.

I did adjust the data request to reflect UTC. Unfortunately, none of the useful values were recorded.
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
I mentioned that the fireman is lying because any retrievable data would back up my story. I have the truth on my side. Trust me, I know telling the insurance companies that the fireman is a liar is not very helpful haha. It was to set the context of this post so I could get some advice on why I needed the data.
If you didnt have a USB plugged in, there is likely no data for you to get, and no proof that (for example) you are not the person lying, both here and when you reported the information to insurance / police.

I am not saying you are lying, I am saying there is no proof either way, and a forum post saying "the fireman is lying" does not necessarily make it true, any more than the fireman saying "they were moving, not me" is true or not.

You have no way to prove anything, so the advice to let your insurance company handle it is basically all you can do.

It was to set the context of this post to explain why I needed the data.***
 
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Sam1

Member
Sep 11, 2019
937
840
NV
Does anyone know if obtaining the EDR data from the car would be useful?

How would it be? At this point they blamed you, you moved the vehicles, and there's no video evidence. You said from the photos that it was impossible to tell who was at fault, so having additional data that doesn't prove anything won't help either.

It's just an unfortunate situation that you'll have to pay a few bucks extra on your insurance for a few years at this point.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
How would it be? At this point they blamed you, you moved the vehicles, and there's no video evidence. You said from the photos that it was impossible to tell who was at fault, so having additional data that doesn't prove anything won't help either.

It's just an unfortunate situation that you'll have to pay a few bucks extra on your insurance for a few years at this point.

EDR data is timestamped. If records vehicle speed as well as impact. If it did record, it would show my car was stationary during time of impact.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
How would it be? At this point they blamed you, you moved the vehicles, and there's no video evidence. You said from the photos that it was impossible to tell who was at fault, so having additional data that doesn't prove anything won't help either.

It's just an unfortunate situation that you'll have to pay a few bucks extra on your insurance for a few years at this point.

Even if it did not record an impact, at the very least, it would show my vehicle slowing down to a complete stop and not moving for several minutes until after the collision happened and the photos were taken (corroborated by the timestamped photos I have). It would debunk their story that I stopped completely for a few seconds before attempting to move around them, and stopping yet again after the collision.

Try to think outside the box here
 

Sam1

Member
Sep 11, 2019
937
840
NV
Even if it did not record an impact, at the very least, it would show my vehicle slowing down to a complete stop and not moving for several minutes until after the collision happened and the photos were taken (corroborated by the timestamped photos I have). It would debunk their story that I stopped completely for a few seconds before attempting to move around them, and stopping yet again after the collision.

Try to think outside the box here

It's not thinking outside the box, you're trying to create confirmation bias.

How are you going to prove the accident didn't happen before you stopped? Maybe that's why you stopped to begin with. They can simply say they made a mistake on their statements, which happens often and isn't a big deal as far as the police are concerned.

Your best case scenario at this point is a both at fault accident if there was a modification to the report, where you still can't pursue the other people's insurance. No matter how much you wish this wasn't the case, you made some mistakes and are now at a word against word scenario. Rest assured if those other people are pulled into it, they are going to back up their friend... Which then makes it 3 against 1 or 2, and you'll just be dragging it out longer.

Hell, you can request all the data you want to, no sweat off my back. But the gears that are turning in your head are not going to translate into real life and practicality. You're just going to delay the process and end up pissed off and more tired in the same spot where you are now.
 

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