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Need advice on data retrieval after accident with lying Fireman

azred

Active Member
Apr 12, 2016
1,877
2,169
Chandler, AZ
Years ago I had a fireman neighbor who mentioned to me that he hated cats. We normally had ours inside but one day it got out and drank antifreeze. Yep, you guessed it. Not sure why you think firemen are any more or less ethical/moral than anyone else. Fireman jobs are highly competitive with good retirement and pay for a blue collar job in most cities and I doubt many candidates are selected because they have a history of saving neighbor pets stuck on telephone lines.

Don’t trust anyone who hits your car. I too have been burned a couple times by trusting the other driver.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
It's not thinking outside the box, you're trying to create confirmation bias.

How are you going to prove the accident didn't happen before you stopped? Maybe that's why you stopped to begin with. They can simply say they made a mistake on their statements, which happens often and isn't a big deal as far as the police are concerned.

Your best case scenario at this point is a both at fault accident if there was a modification to the report, where you still can't pursue the other people's insurance. No matter how much you wish this wasn't the case, you made some mistakes and are now at a word against word scenario. Rest assured if those other people are pulled into it, they are going to back up their friend... Which then makes it 3 against 1 or 2, and you'll just be dragging it out longer.

Hell, you can request all the data you want to, no sweat off my back. But the gears that are turning in your head are not going to translate into real life and practicality. You're just going to delay the process and end up pissed off and more tired in the same spot where you are now.

EDR data is timestamped. It records vehicle speed as well as impact. If it did record, it would show my car was stationary during time of impact.

I am currently in the process of filing a civil claim. A judge would not look favorably on 4 witnesses each changing their story after sworn deposition. I am an attorney.

I don't mind delaying the process. I am no stranger to litigation and this isn't going to take much effort on my end. This is a matter of principle for me-- an increased insurance premium doesn't bother me too much.z This isn't a thread asking for advice on whether I should even bother trying to fight back. I have the resources and skillset to fight back and not just bend over and take it. Everyone's motivations are different, however, so thank you for your perspective.
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
Years ago I had a fireman neighbor who mentioned to me that he hated cats. We normally had ours inside but one day it got out and drank antifreeze. Yep, you guessed it. Not sure why you think firemen are any more or less ethical/moral than anyone else. Those are highly competitive, well paid blue collar jobs in most cities but hard to screen for ethics.

You're right, it's a hard truth I've come to accept and I was being naive to think I could hold them to a higher standard. Lesson learned. I guess I was more surprised that multiple fireman would give false statements to the police to avoid responsibility for a fender bender. Isn't that what their insurance is for?

Anyway, I hope your cat ended up ok!
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,499
3,180
Maine
As soon as the collision happened, my passenger got out of the car (I couldn't open the door since I was adjacent to the rock wall) and took photos of the collision, before either of us moved our vehicles. They are not helpful in determining who hit who first.
Post em. You never know. Sometimes you can tell, because the rear of the car doesn't move laterally like the front of a vehicle can, you do see subtle differences.
 

Sam1

Member
Sep 11, 2019
954
868
NV
EDR data is timestamped. It records vehicle speed as well as impact. If it did record, it would show my car was stationary during time of impact.

I am currently in the process of filing a civil claim. A judge would not look favorably on 4 witnesses each changing their story after sworn deposition. I am an attorney.

I don't mind delaying the process. I am no stranger to litigation and this isn't going to take much effort on my end. This is a matter of principle for me-- an increased insurance premium doesn't bother me too much.z This isn't a thread asking for advice on whether I should even bother trying to fight back. I have the resources and skillset to fight back and not just bend over and take it. Everyone's motivations are different, however, so thank you for your perspective.

Edr didn't record any impact unless impact sensors like an airbag deployment or your car went into emergency mode.

Question though, if you are an atty, why in the hell did you move your vehicle, knowing there was no video evidence?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,250
9,108
Riverside Co. CA
Lets not play "blame the victim" here. I believe that question was already answered with "it was a fireman, I thought I could trust him / her / them".
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
Edr didn't record any impact unless impact sensors like an airbag deployment or your car went into emergency mode.

Question though, if you are an atty, why in the hell did you move your vehicle, knowing there was no video evidence?

To answer your question, I did not move my vehicle after the collision. I instructed my passenger to get out of her side and take pictures of the collision (I was blocked in by the adjacent rock wall) before anyone could move their car. I stated this in an earlier reply. Photos have been submitted to both California Highway Patrol and insurance and no determination can be made who was moving by the photos.
 
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timeshifter

Member
Jan 23, 2021
81
56
USA
I think his story might have a difficult time holding up if accident investigators really looked at it. Seems to me it would be hard to hit someone with the back quarter panel and bumper of your car while you’re moving. If you’re moving and caused the accident one would think that you’d probably make contact with the front of your car, not the back of the car.
 
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DaveRZ

Member
Nov 19, 2019
164
219
Murrieta, CA
I'm sorry I can't think of any way to get any data from the car that would help you. I know Tesla did that whole "panic mode" recording thing a few months back, but I doubt a minor impact would've saved anything to the main computer. Even if it did, you probably have to copy it to your USB drive right away.

I must admit, I'm having some trouble picturing your accident scene though. You were coming down a hill and pulled over to the right as far as you could go, yet your PASSENGER could still get out, but you couldn't. I guess I can't picture what the rocks/walls/hills looked like. The scene I'm picturing, your passenger shouldn't be able to open their door.

What part of the truck hit you?
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
That really surprises me if true -- I expect more from Tesla.

I think it more likely the data is there, but your first attempt was unsuccessful.

I agree. It's weird that the cells for these data values are provided but just left blank. I've been going back and forth with Tesla corporate and Tesla service who are both shifting responsibility on each other to provide the data. Tesla is legally required to proved this information to California residents upon request, which they've acknowledged, but neither service or corporate wants to do it. At one point they said I would have to get the data from the legal department....but would not give me any way of contacting legal directly. I've heard of people being given the run around by Tesla for data requests before. Hopefully I'll be able to clear this up soon.
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
I'm sorry I can't think of any way to get any data from the car that would help you. I know Tesla did that whole "panic mode" recording thing a few months back, but I doubt a minor impact would've saved anything to the main computer. Even if it did, you probably have to copy it to your USB drive right away.

I must admit, I'm having some trouble picturing your accident scene though. You were coming down a hill and pulled over to the right as far as you could go, yet your PASSENGER could still get out, but you couldn't. I guess I can't picture what the rocks/walls/hills looked like. The scene I'm picturing, your passenger shouldn't be able to open their door.

What part of the truck hit you?

Sorry, I totally misdescribed it. My side was adjacent to the truck and I wasn't able to open my door. My passenger, however, was able to get out on her side adjacent to the rock wall.

After the initial impact the truck immediately pulled forward more, continuing the scrape the car until the vehicles were no longer touching. When they stopped my passenger exited the vehicle and took photos.

Here are some photos
 

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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
I think his story might have a difficult time holding up if accident investigators really looked at it. Seems to me it would be hard to hit someone with the back quarter panel and bumper of your car while you’re moving. If you’re moving and caused the accident one would think that you’d probably make contact with the front of your car, not the back of the car.

Yes, you can also see that their truck is oriented to the left which I think would indicate they were the ones trying to squeeze by me. If he had stopped to try to let me pass, his truck would logically be more orientated to the right to give me room to pass by.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,019
4,631
MA, NH
Even if you could get the GPS data, it doesn't show when the scrap happened.
You'd have to have GPS of both.
Shame you didn't have DashCam video.

Not sure if someone can tell by the scrap if the other vehicle was moving or you were.
Possibly by the height of the scrape.
 

Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
Even if you could get the GPS data, it doesn't show when the scrap happened.
You'd have to have GPS of both.
Shame you didn't have DashCam video.

Not sure if someone can tell by the scrap if the other vehicle was moving or you were.
Possibly by the height of the scrape.

I am not after GPS data, moreso telemetry data (vehicle speed, accelerator position, etc). I do have timestamped photos immediately after the collision. If I had timestamped data that confirmed my car completely stopped for several minutes and did not resume moving until after the photos taken post-collision it would corroborate my story that they hit me while I was stationary.
 

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