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Need advice on data retrieval after accident with lying Fireman

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,009
4,928
I sent a data privacy request to Tesla through the website but it shows no data during the time of the accident and the excel cells for Accelerator Pedal position/vehicle speed/etc are all blank. Does anyone know of any other options I have? I've talked to my local tesla dealer and they haven't been helpful. At this point, its about the Principle and I don't want this scumbag to get away with it. Cost is not an issue. Thank you in advance for any insight or advice!
I presume you went through these links before? If not you should go through them.
Obtain a Copy of the Data Associated With Your Tesla Account
In the past, getting data from the EDR was not something the end user could do, but looking at the links it looks like this is now possible:
Event Data Recorder
I would say however, given the speeds involved and your car being stationary, it's unlikely that the EDR was triggered to record an event.
 
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Samhsun

Member
Feb 24, 2021
20
17
Los Angeles
I presume you went through these links before? If not you should go through them.
Obtain a Copy of the Data Associated With Your Tesla Account
In the past, getting data from the EDR was not something the end user could do, but looking at the links it looks like this is now possible:
Event Data Recorder
I would say however, given the speeds involved and your car being stationary, it's unlikely that the EDR was triggered to record an event.

Yes, thats the link I used for my data request which was missing any relevant values. And yes, I agree that EDR would likely not have caught anything useful.
 
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Sam1

Member
Sep 11, 2019
951
865
NV
I am not after GPS data, moreso telemetry data (vehicle speed, accelerator position, etc). I do have timestamped photos immediately after the collision. If I had timestamped data that confirmed my car completely stopped for several minutes and did not resume moving until after the photos taken post-collision it would corroborate my story that they hit me while I was stationary.

If that's all you needed, teslafi would have provided the speed vs time of your trip. But I'm not certain you pay for this service, or if you sign up now that it will populate previous trips.

It may actually populate previous trips because it pulls the data from Tesla. You can see via the screenshot attached, when you hover over the horizontal line chart, it tells the time and the speed of the vehicle, along with multiple other variables

Screen Shot 2021-03-02 at 8.06.07 PM.png
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,009
4,928
If that's all you needed, teslafi would have provided the speed vs time of your trip. But I'm not certain you pay for this service, or if you sign up now that it will populate previous trips.

It may actually populate previous trips because it pulls the data from Tesla. You can see via the screenshot attached, when you hover over the horizontal line chart, it tells the time and the speed of the vehicle, along with multiple other variables

View attachment 641512
My understanding is Teslafi works as a data logger meaning it uses the Tesla API and logs the instantaneous data. It's not looking back at historic data using the API (all the historical data being shown is from previously logged data), as I don't believe the Tesla API provides access to that (for example the location tracking in the app only shows current location, doesn't show previous locations).

Under data privacy laws, Tesla may not necessarily be allowed to keep track of all that data anyways (without some disclaimers agreements owners would have to click through).
 
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Flatbat

Member
Nov 12, 2019
330
310
Melbourne
If you had of had a Telsafi account you could have readily got info like this to show you were stopped. Captured at 20 sec intervals speed zero and odometer not incrementing.
upload_2021-3-3_15-26-52.png

The fact that Teslafi can pull this data from the API suggests Telsa capture it. The issue is wether it is kept and getting access to it.
 
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Sam1

Member
Sep 11, 2019
951
865
NV
My understanding is Teslafi works as a data logger meaning it uses the Tesla API and logs the instantaneous data. It's not looking back at historic data using the API (all the historical data being shown is from previously logged data), as I don't believe the Tesla API provides access to that (for example the location tracking in the app only shows current location, doesn't show previous locations).

Under data privacy laws, Tesla may not necessarily be allowed to keep track of all that data anyways (without some disclaimers agreements owners would have to click through).

ah ok that must be correct then. Mine was confusing because It showed trips all the way back to day 1 with the car a few years ago, but I just checked and it looks like I signed up for teslafi on the same day too, so it wasn't actually going backwards.
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,016
4,627
MA, NH
I am not after GPS data, moreso telemetry data (vehicle speed, accelerator position, etc). I do have timestamped photos immediately after the collision. If I had timestamped data that confirmed my car completely stopped for several minutes and did not resume moving until after the photos taken post-collision it would corroborate my story that they hit me while I was stationary.

One thing I thought of. If you got close enough, while you allegedly drive past him, your mirror would have hit.
The only way to scrape your rear quarter is if your nose is angled away from the fire truck. You can't drive at an angle.
But if you are stationary with your ass in the road, something moving past you, can hit your ass and miss the mirror.
 

yerEVan

Member
Dec 29, 2018
882
803
Near Philly
I am not after GPS data, moreso telemetry data (vehicle speed, accelerator position, etc). I do have timestamped photos immediately after the collision. If I had timestamped data that confirmed my car completely stopped for several minutes and did not resume moving until after the photos taken post-collision it would corroborate my story that they hit me while I was stationary.
Any way to get an auto body person to look at your damage to possibly determine the way the scrape is that the other vesicles was moving?
 

father_of_6

Member
Jan 24, 2021
160
151
Buffalo, NY
I'm having a hard time understanding how your second photo isn't proof. I went to a stag party once for the brother of a police officer. There were literally *hundreds* of police officers and firemen there. Maybe these folks are in cahoots?

Like @mswlogo said, the car doesn't drive at an angle. Forget the police, have the judge look at the photos.
 

beachsideev

Member
May 23, 2020
278
136
usa
One thing I thought of. If you got close enough, while you allegedly drive past him, your mirror would have hit.
The only way to scrape your rear quarter is if your nose is angled away from the fire truck. You can't drive at an angle.
But if you are stationary with your ass in the road, something moving past you, can hit your ass and miss the mirror.

easy. he backed into the firetruck! at least that is what I imagine the fireman/judge/whatever would say about that logic.

I wish you luck. bummer you didn't have the dashcam footage. I've had to rely on it once and there were no debates what happened. however I've also went looking for recordings on it that should have been there but weren't, so it isn't perfect.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,487
3,171
Maine
Sorry, I totally misdescribed it. My side was adjacent to the truck and I wasn't able to open my door. My passenger, however, was able to get out on her side adjacent to the rock wall.

After the initial impact the truck immediately pulled forward more, continuing the scrape the car until the vehicles were no longer touching. When they stopped my passenger exited the vehicle and took photos.

Here are some photos
The 2nd pic seems to support your story; however, even more pics would help. I'm guessing the black step on the truck is what hit your car? The pics were taken before the damage, right? You both stopped, and looked it over, and then he thought he could try to squeeze past?

Also, show us the damage on both vehicles.
 

DaveRZ

Member
Nov 19, 2019
163
219
Murrieta, CA
Just out of curiosity, did the firetruck have a dashcam? If so, then they might either have a recording, or deleted it which would be difficult to talk their way out of. But then again, the same argument could be made about you "conveniently" disabling your dashcam as well. (No accusation here, just saying what they might say - "Don't Tesla's record everything?, Where's your recording?")

It doesn't look like you're going to get any hard, indisputable data here to support your case. GPS data won't necessarily show you were stopped at any exact time, and even if it did, that doesn't mean the accident didn't happen 2 seconds before you stopped. My advice is to let the insurance companies figure it out. Take the fire truck driver/fire dept to small claims court to recoup your deductible. I doubt every witness will be willing to lie for the driver.

And, as if you don't know this... NEVER disable your dashcam

Best of luck!
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,016
4,627
MA, NH
easy. he backed into the firetruck! at least that is what I imagine the fireman/judge/whatever would say about that logic.

I wish you luck. bummer you didn't have the dashcam footage. I've had to rely on it once and there were no debates what happened. however I've also went looking for recordings on it that should have been there but weren't, so it isn't perfect.

It will contradict their story, it wouldn’t make sense and I suspect you can tell the direction of the scrap.

I suspect there are investigators that can sort this out. It wouldn’t be a body shops job. Maybe his own insurance company could sort it out and they have incentive to do so.
 

omark2398

New Member
Mar 4, 2021
1
1
SOCAL
Where in California are you? I have a Tesla EDR kit on hand in Socal. If the impact met the threshold (Delta-V 5mph over 150ms time pulse) it may have recorded an event. Feel free to PM me if you're local to Socal
 
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Huskyfan

Member
Nov 25, 2019
131
89
Seattle
Out of curiosity, how would you be able to pull next to the rock wall and the fire apparatus as close as possible to the edge of the roadway and yet later state you were unable to get out from your driver’s seat and examine the damage? If you’re driving a car with controls on the left hand, as is sold in the US and you are on a US road, then your door opens to the center of the roadway, not next to outer edge of the lane.
As an aside, I’m a firefighter and have ridden around a good bit in a fire engine. if you got in a collision with a fire apparatus, then they would know the names of the other occupants. All would be required by most departments to make a statement.

Something seems a bit odd in your previous statements, based on the portions I’ve read.

Maybe later in this thread someone has asked this question, so forgive me for being too lazy to read through it all, or perhaps my stupidity, etc.
 

Huskyfan

Member
Nov 25, 2019
131
89
Seattle
You're right, it's a hard truth I've come to accept and I was being naive to think I could hold them to a higher standard. Lesson learned. I guess I was more surprised that multiple fireman would give false statements to the police to avoid responsibility for a fender bender. Isn't that what their insurance is for?

Anyway, I hope your cat ended up ok!
I spent twenty years employed as an army officer and 20 years as a professional firefighter in a big city. The standards for ethics are high for both jobs. The background checks for the fire department were as thorough as those to attain a security clearance for the military. The punishment for lying under oath in both jobs are termination of one’s career and possible criminal prosecution. Very few firefighters are going to lie to protect their “friends” if it means termination and possible criminal charges.

Firefighters are often placed in positions of great trust; much more than most attorneys I’d suspect. How often is an attorney left alone in someone’s bedroom, often by oneself, while that person is physically and/or mentally diminished? As a firefighter that happens almost daily. How often do you hear stories of professional firefighters (not volunteers) being accused of acting inappropriately in those situations?
OTOH, how often do you hear stories of attorneys lying under oath, or using their knowledge of the legal system to try and circumvent or protect themselves. Our last few years of the Trump administration puts a bright shining light on the lack of professionalism for a minority of attorneys.

Not saying the OP is lying. I am questioning his story. Sure bad apples exist in all professions. But bad apples don’t ruin the entire batch. They just get thrown out. The FF that supposedly poisoned your cat may be what happened. Then again, i bet your relationship with the neighbor who was a firefighter probably has more to the story than a cat that was allegedly poisoned. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
 
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Huskyfan

Member
Nov 25, 2019
131
89
Seattle
One thing I thought of. If you got close enough, while you allegedly drive past him, your mirror would have hit.
The only way to scrape your rear quarter is if your nose is angled away from the fire truck. You can't drive at an angle.
But if you are stationary with your ass in the road, something moving past you, can hit your ass and miss the mirror.
Fire apparatus have bumpers and steps that extend further out than the body panels.
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,016
4,627
MA, NH
Fire apparatus have bumpers and steps that extend further out than the body panels.

It should be apparent what hit the car to see if what your saying is true. I agree it’s possible. It could also be that Tesla has to be even a steeper angle in order to hit what was hit with out hitting something else. The fire truck has a fairly unique set of obtrusions. So I suspect it can be determined which vehicle was likely moving. Not a guarantee of course.
 

focher

Active Member
Oct 15, 2013
1,010
1,451
Bay Area
Seems to me there are 6 different people who witnessed the event - 4 firefighters and the OP plus his passenger. It would be interesting to know how each person independently is willing to describe the situation.
 

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