Need advice on recurrent rotor problems with 2014 Model S

[SabrToothSqrl]

I watched an old person in a Caddy accelerate to pass me, while their brake lights were on (flat road) and continue to drive w/lit brake lights for the next 20+ miles. All while moving further and further from me.

Since brakes cut the cruise control, I can only assume they had their left foot resting on the brake pedal, which will kill MPG and destroy the brakes...

I can't believe how common this is... makes following them impossible because their brake lights are always on...

 

[MP3Mike]

I can only assume they had their left foot resting on the brake pedal

Or it could be that the brake pedal switch has failed and stuck in the on position and they don't know it. (Less likely.)

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Or it could be that the brake pedal switch has failed and stuck in the on position and they don't know it. (Less likely.)

Well.. it was a GM... faulty switches is kind of their thing.

 

[jbcarioca]

We cannot diagnose this issue from the Forum but I'll wager it is related to something like a piston malfunction or something similar rather than a pure caliper issue. What ever it is I am very curious to know because I have never heard of this issue with a Tesla. I did have a BMW with Brembo's that had a piston setting error that caused dragging brakes. BMW insisted it was me, but in the end fixed it under warranty. Luckily for you, Tesla is not any longer blaming you.

 

[brkaus]

Well.. it was a GM... faulty switches is kind of their thing.

My dodge brake switch failed too. Burned out a brake light bulb before I figured it out.

 

[BrettS]

After a run on the highway touch the spokes of each wheel to verify that one is not significantly hotter than the others. Heat causes warping but it shouldn't if the rotors were stress relieved during manufacture.

This is a good idea and may help pinpoint a problem with one wheel. However, it is very interesting to me that they replaced all four rotors. That says to me that either they identified that all four rotors were warped (which would point to driving style or a problem with the entire breaking system, rather than a single sticky caliper) or they really had no idea what was going on and just replaced everything in the hopes that it would take care of the problem. It might be interesting to ask them if they saw signs of warping on all our rotors.

 

[jeffro01]

Yeah my guess here is, having had this problem on a car way back when, that there is uneven pressure in either the caliper pistons or the break lines themselves causing uneven breaking power which eventually will cause the rotor(s) to warp...

This can be VERY hard to diagnose but there are usually tail tale signs along the way...

Jeff

 

[Jashev]

Yeah my guess here is, having had this problem on a car way back when, that there is uneven pressure in either the caliper pistons or the break lines themselves causing uneven breaking power which eventually will cause the rotor(s) to warp...

This can be VERY hard to diagnose but there are usually tail tale signs along the way...

Jeff

I think Jeff is on the money here. This really sounds like a brake line pressure issue. Perhaps a problem in the equalizers or the Master Cylinder itself.

 

[Don85D]

If there really was uneven pressure the car would pull to one side during hard breaking. I suspect a lazy caliber that is not fully retracting and the spokes of that wheel will feel hotter than the others after a highway run.

Rotors produced in Asia for the home DIY repair business are notoriously bad but I wouldn't expect that of Tesla parts. The Asian made rotors are sold at the minimum safe thickness to save metal cost so they are expected to be replaced when pads are renewed. The thin rotors warp very easily in my experience because they can't deal with heat. After a few hard stops its wise to let the car creep forward instead of being stationary. The super hot pads and rotor will warp if the heat is concentrated at one spot.

This issue is all part of cost reduction and it's sad to see.

 

[Jkhors]

So... we picked up the Tesla and spoke with Management (whom BTW are excellent in customer service) and they said.... "the car vibrates when the brakes are applied, front and back rotors warped". Which is basically all they could figure out. Engineering has no comment and said... replace the braking system. They still have no idea why the rotors are warped but are concerned about quality control on the rotors (bad batch I guess). They also replaced the brake pads this time and said.... go forth and drive normally.

I REALLY hope this works. The car is now on it's 4th set of rotors in less than 6 months. I asked about the car's previous history, but they did not have any comment about it. The 4 to 6 week count down has begun. The car usually starts to vibrate at 4 weeks (but so mild you think you have imagined it) and then by 6 weeks the vibration is pronounced and then progresses to embarrassing (like if you use the brakes with someone in the car you are embarrassed that you spent $80,000 on a car that shakes like a 1980's Honda civic).

So, I'll keep you all informed and hope that this thread is helpful to anyone else out there dealing with a vibrating Tesla (and not in a good way).

 

[Jkhors]

BTW. I just checked my Tesla sheet. They noted warping on front and back rotors, so it does sound like a systemic problem (or a batch of crap rotors that melt when used).

 

[supratachophobia]

Hello Forum,
I am looking for thoughts, experiences, and advice on how to deal with my ongoing Model S rotor problem. I purchased a 2014 Model S with 40,000 miles and auto park/ auto drive, jump seats. This was a certified pre-owned car. I received the car in November of 2016 and began having issues with vibration while active breaking (the car shakes at certain brake pressure). We had the car serviced at Tesla at the end of December/ early Jan and they said the rotors were warped and replaced the front rotors. About 6 weeks later I have the same problem, braking results in shaking of entire car (getting progressively worse each day). I returned to Tesla and they replaced all four rotors and examined and cleaned the brakes (or whatever they do). The car seemed better and actually seemed "looser", it seemed more likely to roll when stopped at a light. However, we are about 4 weeks after the last full rotor replacement and I am back to square one. The car shakes when I apply the breaks.

Tesla service is telling me that the rotor problems are related to the way I drive and they want to go on a "road test" with me. Just to be clear I am not a "hot rod." I am a 35 year old veterinarian and mother of 3 children aged 8,7, and 5. There is no hard breaking, crazy road races or speeding up only to break. I drive to work in highway traffic, drive to pick up my kids and drive home. I spend about 1.5 hours a day MINIMUM in the car. Tesla service says the highway driving is heating up my brakes and melting the rotors. That being said, I rarely actively break on the highway... the regen braking does almost all of the deceleration.

So here is my dilemma... what can I do with this car? Is this a lemon? Can someone really warp the rotors every 4 weeks from normal highway driving? Should I give up on Tesla, give the car up and move back to gas cars? Should I request a full refund and try another Tesla (maybe get an Model X)? I feel like I am getting blamed for using the car like a normal human being. At this point I am super disappointed and frustrated. We are building a house right now and I am seriously doubting investing in the new Tesla roof we are planning. I want to be happy, but this is turning in a nightmare. My sister and father both own a Model S and have had ZERO problems. Our best friend owns an S and X... ZERO problems.

If anyone has experienced this or a similar problem? What was your experience? How was it resolved? Did you find that the resolution was a fair solution? Even some encouragement would be appreciated at this point.

So do the ride along? Did they eliminate your driving style as a cause?

 

[rxlawdude]

Jkhors' experience mirrors my 70D. I'm on my third set of rotors for exactly the same symptoms: progressively worse shudder when braking.

Here's what's been replaced:

April '17 (49K miles):
FRONT BRAKE ROTOR (1025099-00-B) qty 2
July '16 (26K miles):
FRONT BRAKE ROTOR WITH AS-CAST OUTER HAT (1025099-00-B) qty1
FRONT BRAKE PAD SVC KIT HP1000-T (1055066-00-B) qty 1
Feb '16 (15K miles):
FRONT BRAKE ROTOR WITH AS-CAST OUTER HAT (1025099-00-B) qty 2
REAR BRAKE ROTOR - OUTER HAT AS CAST (6006431-00-D) qty 2

Clearly, there is something wrong that is causing the rotors to fail in my car and a small number of others'. I'm out of warranty at 53K miles, but I think I'll visit the Service Center with the history. (I bet they never look at previous parts replaced when they do a service, so they are unaware of the recurrent nature.)

 

[jelloslug]

It sounds to me like there is an issue with the master cylinder, brake booster, or some other component further up the line. There is something that is lightly applying the brakes and causing them all to drag.

 

[2fast2]

Brake rotor warp can be diagnosed with a dial gauge. Pulsating brakes can be due to brake pad deposit on the rotors, as someone previously suggested, but if you have OEM pads on your Tesla, I highly doubt this as it would be a common problem. A failed or sticking caliper can cause rotor damage but not to all 4 rotors at once (unless they're just throwing parts at the problem when really only one corner was warped. I'd expect much better from good Tesla technicians.)
You really can't ride the brakes with a Tesla because it will alarm, so I doubt that is your problem. If your brake system is malfunctioning such that the brakes are slightly dragging all the time, your Watts / Mile should indicate pretty poor efficiency. The car's logs might provide a clue for them if they look.
Tesla should get to the bottom of this for you. I hope they're giving you a loaner every time they try to fix your brake problems. It is about time you get a BREAK from your BRAKE problems.
Good luck.

 

[rxlawdude]

Brake rotor warp can be diagnosed with a dial gauge. Pulsating brakes can be due to brake pad deposit on the rotors, as someone previously suggested, but if you have OEM pads on your Tesla, I highly doubt this as it would be a common problem. A failed or sticking caliper can cause rotor damage but not to all 4 rotors at once (unless they're just throwing parts at the problem when really only one corner was warped. I'd expect much better from good Tesla technicians.)
You really can't ride the brakes with a Tesla because it will alarm, so I doubt that is your problem. If your brake system is malfunctioning such that the brakes are slightly dragging all the time, your Watts / Mile should indicate pretty poor efficiency. The car's logs might provide a clue for them if they look.
Tesla should get to the bottom of this for you. I hope they're giving you a loaner every time they try to fix your brake problems. It is about time you get a BREAK from your BRAKE problems.
Good luck.

Thanks! I'm assuming since the rotors were replaced so recently that they would still be under warranty (for the repair). However, Tesla specifically disavows warranties on its repairs. (State law, of course, prevails.)

 

[phaduman]

It sounds to me like there is an issue with the master cylinder, brake booster, or some other component further up the line. There is something that is lightly applying the brakes and causing them all to drag.

Any kind of drag will have a higher consumption. Perhaps for OP, the car always had drag so they perhaps never noticed what a "good" consumption is like. But anything out of ordinary (consistently lower than rated range) should give a clue regardless?

 

[Olle]

I have had this problem on many cars' front rotors, including my previous Tesla P85. Replaced under warranty. They said it was a bad batch and the problem never reappeared.

Agree with all posts above about dragging brakes over over torqued lug nuts causing problems.

Another thing I have heard is if you drive through water when brakes are hot, rotors can warp. Not sure if it is true though. Are your brakes regularly exposed to large amounts of water?

Also not only over torquing nuts but also wrong sequence torquing can supposedly destroy rotors.

Could also be that pads are not "bedding" correctly and that they keep biting better and better on certain spots while sliding over others, creating a self reinforcing pattern of hills and valleys on your rotor.Did they replace pads too or only rotors?

Is the car parked outside? It's humid here in FL and if you often park close to an irrigation sprinkler the resulting rust spots might cause this bedding problem??

 

[Jkhors]

So do the ride along? Did they eliminate your driving style as a cause?

Yes they eliminated the "driving" as the underlying cause of the warped rotors. They pulled the driving logs and found nothing exciting about how the car was being used.

 

[Jkhors]

I have had this problem on many cars' front rotors, including my previous Tesla P85. Replaced under warranty. They said it was a bad batch and the problem never reappeared.

Agree with all posts above about dragging brakes over over torqued lug nuts causing problems.

Another thing I have heard is if you drive through water when brakes are hot, rotors can warp. Not sure if it is true though. Are your brakes regularly exposed to large amounts of water?

Also not only over torquing nuts but also wrong sequence torquing can supposedly destroy rotors.

Could also be that pads are not "bedding" correctly and that they keep biting better and better on certain spots while sliding over others, creating a self reinforcing pattern of hills and valleys on your rotor.Did they replace pads too or only rotors? View attachment 229298

Is the car parked outside? It's humid here in FL and if you often park close to an irrigation sprinkler the resulting rust spots might cause this bedding problem??

I haven't been involved in much "watery" driving and the car is parked in a closed garage (although the summer rains are coming). No rust noted on the rotors (so they tell me). It would be crazy to think that the Tesla people installed the rotors incorrectly over 3 different attempts. I am sure they are tired of spending money on my car, so I hope the absolute best technician is working on the car by this point. Tesla has honored it's warranty so far. They cleaned the brake system and replaced the brake pads as well this time.