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Need advice on recurrent rotor problems with 2014 Model S

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I think it's difficult to properly bed the pads and rotor on our cars because of the regenerative braking. And I don't like what I'm reading about new rotors with old pads. I know others' opinions differ, but to me, that's asking for trouble, particularly if the old pads might not have been bedded properly.

Really, a rotor replacement does require driving the car a mile or two and a little time. Slow easy roll to take any surface coatings off; go fast - stop hard - drive a bit to let it all cool; same thing for a few cycles, let it all cool off and call it good. If you were a jerk and torqued the lugs with an impact and no limiter, this procedure itself will *warp* the rotors and the customer will fail to accept the car...

In a Tesla this should probably be done with regen set to low, and remember the "slow roll" has to be under 10MPH or you'll get no actual brake application on light "braking" - it'll all be regen. Same for the hard braking cycles - they have to be *really hard, or regen will do most of the work.

But Tesla hires only certified mechanics, right? They should know all this already.
 
But Tesla hires only certified mechanics, right? They should know all this already.

Has anyone mentioned bad calipers or line pressurization? Maybe there is caliper contact during driving, heating the rotors all day. Wonder if they just don’t release far enough. This is clearly not normal

Exactly. Seized callipers will obviously heat up the rotors and wear them out along with the pads prematurely, but in my experience often without warping the rotors, unless a nice cold puddle splashes on it maybe?

But I can't believe any reasonable mechanic/technician, let alone a good one, would put on a set of rotors without checking that the callipers pistons move freely, after cleaning dirt/buildup/residue from them first. And then knowing a particular vehicle has been through multiple sets of rotors in a short period of time? You would double and triple check this.

Multiple batches of shoddy rotors? Would they not think of this?

It must be something else, like an electronic system applying the brakes when it shouldn't be, which of course these self-driving cars do; this is all new to me so I don't exactly understand how the system works, but simply it would be like someone in the old days driving with their left foot riding the brake pedal. Yet the poster claimed their energy usage is normal? And surely Tesla would be able to pull a log that shows that brake input is being applied continuously. It doesn't make any sense... so replace the master cylinder and every electrical component in the brake circuit?

I know several good mechanics who grow bored with the same old re and re and would love a problem to solve like this.
 
In a Tesla this should probably be done with regen set to low, and remember the "slow roll" has to be under 10MPH or you'll get no actual brake application on light "braking" - it'll all be regen. Same for the hard braking cycles - they have to be *really hard, or regen will do most of the work.

Tesla doesn't put regen on the brake pedal, so if you are pressing the brake pedal you are applying the friction brakes. (Of course regen would be happening as well.)
 
Did your S have powder coated wheels by chance? They completed the safety inspection, and after many different theories - they have decided it is because of the powder coated wheels. They are saying there is residue aka gunk inside the lug but threads. And the inside of the wheel was apparently powder coated or dipped - causing the back pad not to align properly. They suggested replacing the warped rotors again, and putting factory wheels on to see if that will finally stop the rotors from warping. I am not entirely convinced this is the underlying issue. Has anyone else heard of this?

I am on my 4th set and they are getting me to use loaner wheels to see if the problem returns. I had my rims powder coated after my forst set were replaced at 91k kms or 57K miles. I will update if the issue returns.
 
This is what they look like, I spoke to the rim company where they do this for many make and models and they say it's not likely or possible. How can you be sure?
 

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Hello Forum,
I am looking for thoughts, experiences, and advice on how to deal with my ongoing Model S rotor problem. I purchased a 2014 Model S with 40,000 miles and auto park/ auto drive, jump seats. This was a certified pre-owned car. I received the car in November of 2016 and began having issues with vibration while active breaking (the car shakes at certain brake pressure). We had the car serviced at Tesla at the end of December/ early Jan and they said the rotors were warped and replaced the front rotors. About 6 weeks later I have the same problem, braking results in shaking of entire car (getting progressively worse each day). I returned to Tesla and they replaced all four rotors and examined and cleaned the brakes (or whatever they do). The car seemed better and actually seemed "looser", it seemed more likely to roll when stopped at a light. However, we are about 4 weeks after the last full rotor replacement and I am back to square one. The car shakes when I apply the breaks.

Tesla service is telling me that the rotor problems are related to the way I drive and they want to go on a "road test" with me. Just to be clear I am not a "hot rod." I am a 35 year old veterinarian and mother of 3 children aged 8,7, and 5. There is no hard breaking, crazy road races or speeding up only to break. I drive to work in highway traffic, drive to pick up my kids and drive home. I spend about 1.5 hours a day MINIMUM in the car. Tesla service says the highway driving is heating up my brakes and melting the rotors. That being said, I rarely actively break on the highway... the regen braking does almost all of the deceleration.

So here is my dilemma... what can I do with this car? Is this a lemon? Can someone really warp the rotors every 4 weeks from normal highway driving? Should I give up on Tesla, give the car up and move back to gas cars? Should I request a full refund and try another Tesla (maybe get an Model X)? I feel like I am getting blamed for using the car like a normal human being. At this point I am super disappointed and frustrated. We are building a house right now and I am seriously doubting investing in the new Tesla roof we are planning. I want to be happy, but this is turning in a nightmare. My sister and father both own a Model S and have had ZERO problems. Our best friend owns an S and X... ZERO problems.

If anyone has experienced this or a similar problem? What was your experience? How was it resolved? Did you find that the resolution was a fair solution? Even some encouragement would be appreciated at this point.
I just ran across your posting and was struck by the similarities we have, I too bought a used certified 2014 Model S85 with 38,000 miles on it. It began having the same symptoms as your car and I had the same experience with Tesla service. They replaced the front rotors and brake pads, and within 3000 miles from install, the very same thing happened. It took me until 7000 miles to finally get the car back in for service and low and behold, I needed new rotors! I blew a fuse, how is it possible for the rotors to fail within 3000-7000 miles? Just like you Tesla said it must be my driving style, and I pushed back saying I always use regenerative braking for slowing the car and use the brakes only to bring car to full stop. I too had to take a "driving test" with service supervisor to prove I didn't drive like a mad person. After some back and forth they agreed to take 25% off my bill and keep them advised if the problem returns before a year from install. I have a 2001 Jaguar XKR with 100,000 miles with original rotors and pads, so it is hard for me to believe that Tesla rotors inherantly have such a short lifespan. I think there is either something wrong with the rotor design and material or the workmanship when installing them, at any rate I plan on keeping a close eye this set from here on.
 
I just ran across your posting and was struck by the similarities we have, I too bought a used certified 2014 Model S85 with 38,000 miles on it. It began having the same symptoms as your car and I had the same experience with Tesla service. They replaced the front rotors and brake pads, and within 3000 miles from install, the very same thing happened. It took me until 7000 miles to finally get the car back in for service and low and behold, I needed new rotors! I blew a fuse, how is it possible for the rotors to fail within 3000-7000 miles? Just like you Tesla said it must be my driving style, and I pushed back saying I always use regenerative braking for slowing the car and use the brakes only to bring car to full stop. I too had to take a "driving test" with service supervisor to prove I didn't drive like a mad person. After some back and forth they agreed to take 25% off my bill and keep them advised if the problem returns before a year from install. I have a 2001 Jaguar XKR with 100,000 miles with original rotors and pads, so it is hard for me to believe that Tesla rotors inherantly have such a short lifespan. I think there is either something wrong with the rotor design and material or the workmanship when installing them, at any rate I plan on keeping a close eye this set from here on.
It’s not the rotors. If they are getting warped that quickly and the pads were also changed, it’s gotta be the caliper(s) themselves. The piston seal(s) may be partially seized and constantly putting pressure on the pad, thereby heating up the rotor. Def not normal and Tesla rotors are nothing special/different than any other.
 
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Hello all, same issue with 2016 MS. On my 3rd rotor set (also calipers, pads and hubs were changed). Just took my car to service again for same issue just a month after the rotors were replaced. Same song: “you’re braking too hard”. Has anyone found a long term solution? appreciate your help. Thanks.
 
Make sure the calipers are free of rust and corrosion and the edges of the pads and caliper are lubricated.

I've posted this pic before, but I found my 2015 calipers looked like this when I did the pads and rotors 3 years ago. The originals pulsed under pressure and braking performance was lousy. The pads were mostly seized. You should use a file to remove any rust/corrosion, then apply brake grease. I haven't had any issues in the past 3 years and the brakes still work great.

front brake bracket.jpg
 
Hello all, same issue with 2016 MS. On my 3rd rotor set (also calipers, pads and hubs were changed). Just took my car to service again for same issue just a month after the rotors were replaced. Same song: “you’re braking too hard”. Has anyone found a long term solution? appreciate your help. Thanks.
What kind of wheels do you have? Aftermarket? Have the back mating surfaces been painted/powder coated?
 
What kind of wheels do you have? Aftermarket? Have the back mating surfaces been painted/powder coated?
Tesla 19 inch powdercoated rims now but the problem started when I had 21 inch original wheels. I read in some posts that Tesla engineering blamed the rotors warping on powder coating but I saw other people having the same problem with original Tesla rims 🤷‍♂️
 
I put drilled ,slotted rotors on front. Don't have the problems anymore. I smoked original brakes a few years ago. So I upgraded to drilled and slotted. I put on new hubs also. Found one hub bearings going bad after 175k miles. Getting ready to install drilled and slotted on rear.
 
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This is a good read: tl:dr - rotors are not actually warped, rather they have inconsistent friction characteristics due to high and low spots on the surface of the rotor, due to improper installation of the wheel, and/or improper bedding of the pads on the new rotor.

Tesla tech's don't condition/bed in the new brakes, they just install, run around the block once to make sure the car stops, and hand it off to the customer, without giving instructions on how to condition the brakes. The seasoning of the rotors given below is the longest procedure I have read yet, most others just claim to brake gently over the first several hundred miles (but if one is on the highway, several hundred miles might mean very little braking)

The guys at StopTech have the science of brake systems down.

So much so that they released a series of white papers that include everything from a basic glossary of brake terms to an in-depth look at the physics of braking. The topic that intrigued us the most was on common brake system myths. The paper covered six different myths, but three in particular caught our attention.

Myth #1: Brake Judder and Vibration Comes from Warped Rotors

StopTech says the term “warped brake disc” has been used in motorsports for years, but we’ve heard the same reference made on everyday passenger cars, too. In fact, brake vibration (and the warped rotor excuse) has led many cars to be returned to their manufacturer under lemon law rules.

But according to StopTech engineer Carroll Smith, brake vibration doesn’t come from warped brake discs.

“Presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly, and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing…I have never seen a warped brake disc,” said Smith, who authored StopTech’s white paper on the topic. “I have seen lots of cracked discs, discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces — sometimes visible and more often not.”
Smith says every vibration issue he’s seen attributed to a warped brake disc has actually turned out to be friction pad material that was transferred unevenly to the surface of the rotor. This uneven build-up results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.
Smith explains how the problem occurs by taking a more in-depth look at the nature of braking friction in his white paper. The bottom line, though, is you must properly break in your brake pads and rotors to prevent materials from transferring between surfaces in a random fashion. This allows the bonding resins to be burned off slowly to prevent uneven deposits and fade. The right break-in procedure will also relieve any thermal stresses on new brake rotors and will transfer a smooth layer of pad material onto the disc.
It’s also important to choose the right brake pad materials for your driving style. According to Smith, there is no such thing as an ideal all-around brake pad. For example, a friction material that is quiet and functions at low temperatures around town won’t stop a car that’s being driven hard. A true racing pad, used under normal conditions, will be noisy and not work well at low temperatures around town.
So what pad should be used in high performance street cars?
“The answer is a high performance street pad with good low temperature characteristics,” Smith stated. “The reason is simple: If we are driving really hard and begin to run into trouble, either with pad fade or boiling fluid, the condition comes on gradually enough to allow us to simply modify our driving style to compensate. On the other hand, should an emergency occur when the brakes are cold, the high temperature pad is simply not going to stop the car.”
Again, the right pads, mounting procedures, and pad/rotor break-in process are key to avoiding dreaded brake judder.

There are two very good reasons to bed-in brake pads—three, if not crashing ranks as a top priority:

  1. Transferring brake pad material evenly onto your brake rotors to avoid unwanted vibration and brake judder.
  2. To drive out resins used to bind brake pad material during manufacturing, but need to be cooked out in order for pads to produce proper brake friction.
We’re going to tell you how to do both, based on the collective wisdom of the brake system geniuses at StopTech and Baer.

Important Note: Don’t try to bed-in brake pads without seasoning your rotors. Also, when bedding your pads, give yourself a substantial coast-down zone that will give you plenty of room to stop the car safely in the event of brake fade.

(Image/Jim Brightly)
Bedding-in brake pads, at its core, is about heating the brake system to the appropriate temperature to effectively transfer an even layer of pad material onto the brake rotor.

Uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the #1 and almost exclusive cause of vibration and brake judder, according to Matt Weiss and James Walker Jr.’s StopTech white paper Pad and Rotor Bed-In Theory, Definitions and Procedures.

“It only takes a small amount of thickness variation, or TV, in the transfer layer (we’re only talking a few ten thousandths of an inch here) to initiate brake vibration,” the white paper said. “While the impact of an uneven transfer layer is almost imperceptible at first… the high spots can become hot spots and can actually change the metallurgy of the rotor in those areas, creating ‘hard’ sports in the rotor face that are virtually impossible to remove.”

Street Brake Pads vs. Race Brake Pads

Your bed-in procedure will have to be application-specific if you want to do it right.

The adherent temperature range required to properly transfer pad material to the rotors varies widely depending on whether you’re bedding-in a street machine or race car—typically 100 degrees F-600 degrees F for street pads and 600 degrees F-1,400 degrees F for racing brake pads.

The 5-Step Bed-In Procedure for Street Pads

Baer recommends running your brake pads through normal commuting-type driving for at least 150-

Baer brake pads for street use
(Image/Baer)
200 miles before using them aggressively.

  1. Perform four repeated light-to-medium stops—from 65 miles-per-hour down to 10 miles-per-hour, to bring the rotors up to temperature.
  2. Perform three light stops in succession. Then, perform eight heavy stops, back-to-back, at a point just short of wheel lock—from 65 mph down to about 5 mph.
  3. Drive for 10 minutes to cool off your brakes. Avoid braking as much as possible during this time. A 10-minute drive with zero braking is ideal.
  4. Perform three light stops in succession. Then, perform eight heavy stops, back-to-back, at a point just short of wheel lock—from 65 mph down to about 5 mph.
  5. Drive for another 10 minutes of cool-down time without using your brakes, if possible.
Repeating the process is encouraged to be on the safe side, but otherwise—mission accomplished.

How to Season Brake Rotors

From the mad geniuses at Baer

1. Use the vehicle for five or six days of gentle driving, using the brakes to the same extent you would in typical driving conditions.

[important]NOTE: Zinc-plated rotors require a couple extra days of driving to wear through the plating before the rotor-seasoning process can begin.[/important]

2. After finding a safe location to drive your vehicle as fast as 70 miles-per-hour, perform four regular stops—from 60-70 miles-per-hour down to complete stops as you would during normal driving conditions.

3. Next, perform medium-effort partial stops (about 50 percent) from 60 miles-per-hour down to about 15 miles-per-hour. Once completed, drive for five minutes with little to no braking, allowing your rotors to cool.

4. Next, perform four medium- to hard-effort partial stops (about 75 percent), from 60 miles-per-hour down to about 15 miles-per-hour. Once completed, drive for 10 minutes with little to no braking, letting your rotors cool.

5. Park the car and let your brakes cool overnight. According to the experts at Baer, you’re now 50-percent complete with the seasoning process. To finish the job, you’re going to essentially repeat the procedure from the day before.

6. Return to your safe location for driving as fast as 60 miles-per-hour. Next, perform medium-effort partial stops (about 50 percent) from 60 miles-per-hour down to about 15 miles-per-hour. Once completed, drive for five minutes with little to no braking, allowing your rotors to cool.

7. Next, perform four medium- to hard-effort partial stops (about 75 percent), from 60 miles-per-hour down to about 15 miles-per-hour. Once completed, drive for 10 minutes with little to no braking, and let your rotors cool off.

8. Finally, make six hard partial stops, from 60 miles-per-hour down to about 15 miles-per-hour. Make every effort to perform these stops without locking your wheels. When you’re done, drive for 10 minutes with little to no braking, allowing your rotors to cool.

9. One more time, park your car and let your brake system cool overnight. If you just installed new brake pads as well, you are now ready to bed-in your brake pads. You can read our How to Bed-In Brake Pads post here.
 
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Tesla tech's don't condition/bed in the new brakes, they just install, run around the block once to make sure the car stops, and hand it off to the customer, without giving instructions on how to condition the brakes.
Is that true? There is a "brake burnishing" feature in service mode that turns down regen and walks you through Tesla's procedure for burnishing in new pads/rotors. I would hope that they actually use it.
 
Quick update for anyone reading this thread and experiencing a similar problem. Tesla did a road test and analyzed the driving data from the car. They finally said that our driving was not the problem.... big sigh of relief. However, that means that they are not sure what is causing the warped rotors (underlying cause undetermined). They have escalated our problem to "Engineering" and we were told they will get back to us.... but it may take awhile.

We called them today (almost 3 weeks now) and they are still trying to decide how that want to proceed. I am not sure what that means.

I'll update this thread when I have something more interesting to tell everyone. Finger's crossed that we get this all figured out.
there is so much parts on the car that can cause what you are describing the only real way to find out if the car is eating the rotors and causing warping the rotor is bring the last bad sets of rotor to a machine shop and ask the machine shop if they found the rotors to be warped. tesla service center have a tendency to hire out of the gate students, i doubt the guys working in service center is going to clean the pins on the brake. when the pin gets crusty they will cause unbalanced clamping force on the two pad on each rotors and calipers. another possibility is old boiled up brake fluid if some noob didn't bleed it properly air will be trapped in the lines or the pistons or if one or more piston's seal went bad also can cause unbalanced clamping to the pads. then there is the rubber bushings that could of went bad, after the brake pads and the rotor is bed and mate the braking force increase which could trigger vibrations which can cause a bad rubber bushing or bushings to vibrate violently. tbh it just sounds like you need a better mech to work on your car. or it could be just a simple retorque wheel bolts that they most likely skipped after the rotors been heat cycled from driving a few weeks
 
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I put drilled ,slotted rotors on front. Don't have the problems anymore. I smoked original brakes a few years ago. So I upgraded to drilled and slotted. I put on new hubs also. Found one hub bearings going bad after 175k miles. Getting ready to install drilled and slotted on rear.
Thank you for the info. I got the hubs replaced on last service and the problem still recurred. Any way you could post a link to the rotors that you used? Also, did you change the brake pads and if so did you go with the Tesla ones or a different type? Thanks a lot.
 
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