Need assistance on installing Tesla Wall charger ver 3

[canbonbon]

Looking to install Tesla wall charger and try to get 48 Amp output out of it (max output). So the breaker should be 60 Amp (or more) for this. The Panel is on the other end of the house and is about 90 ft away in the basement. So after accounting for losses, etc. we think #4 AWG wire would work for this (we could even do #6 AWG but currently both are priced the same so I went with #4AWG). We would need 2 hot wires and 1 for ground (no neutral required).

Here is the #4 wire (hot) I am considering: #4 Wire at Lowes

Here is the #8 wire (ground): #8 Ground Wire
(Question on ground wire: Can it be #10 instead of #8? It will then be half the price)

Here is the breaker: 60 Amp Circuit Breaker

A couple of wire clamps: Clamps

Total Material Cost = approx. $440

Here is the charger which will be hardwired: Tesla Wall Connector (is now $425)

Here is the installation manual for the charger: Installation Manual

Please review and let me know if I am missing anything or any step.

Also, I read in the manual that there are requirements on torque:-> Use a torque driver and the included 4 mm hex bit to torque the terminal screws to 50 lbf . in (5.6 Nm). I am not sure how to do that. I guess I will have to purchase/rent some sort of Torque screw driver to do this. Many Youtube videos I saw did not use any special tool, they just tightened it well and gave a pull to make sure its not coming out.

 

[brkaus]

You realize this wire needs to be in conduit?

Also, a torque wrench/screwdriver is highly recommended. That connection is one of the most common failures.

 

[jcanoe]

Depending on where the wiring will be run you could use metallic clad wire and eliminate the need for conduit. Do you need a permit, have the installation inspected? A ~100 foot run is going to involve a number of penetrations, obstacles and bends. I would go with a licensed electrician, let them drive.

 

[Sophias_dad]

(Question on ground wire: Can it be #10 instead of #8? It will then be half the price)

No, it must be #8 if you are using #4 conductors.

Your entire first post alarms me. The fact you seem to be planning this work without knowing the individual conductors need to be in conduit is downright scary. Have you priced out 4-3 NMB wire, or 6-2NMB? Note that 6-2 NMB is NOT supposed to be carrying 48 amps continuously, but #6 conductors in conduit would be fine at 48 amps continuous, and then you could use a #10 ground wire.

THHN/THWN-2 Copper Wire | WireAndCableYourWay.com can supply #6 THHN at a considerably lower price than Lowes. Strangely their #4 price is higher.

Using flexible armored conduit may well be an option, but be aware the clamping requirements are different for conduit than the NMB clamps you have linked.

I assume you've selected the right MODEL/BRAND of breaker, to match your current panel.

That's INCH lbs on the torque. If you give it 50 foot lbs, the backplate will be utterly destroyed.

A cheap 1/4" torque wrench is only like $30. It also wouldn't be very hard to put a 4 lb weight on the end of a one foot bar strapped to a socket wrench, sticking out horizontally from the screwdriver bit. 50 inch pounds is VERY firm when done by hand with a screwdriver. Probably near the limit of many people's grip I'd wager.

 

[canbonbon]

Thank you all for your comments. I forgot to mention that the basement is unfinished with ceiling fully exposed. There is a straight shot from the panel (which is at one end) to the garage (which is at the other end) in the center of the ceiling. The way electric work is done in the house, right in the center of the ceiling, a lot of wires (including a few for 240v for Kitchen) travel there just below the rafters. My plan is to staple these Tesla wall charger wires right next to them so there is no conduit required. Once I reach the other end, I will have to fish the wires about 5-6 feet into the basement wall and then install the charger there. I will be using someone to help me fish that wire because the wall has foam insulation. Hope that makes it clear why I don't need any conduit as there are no obstacles, penetrations or bends.

About the wires, I mentioned the reason above that Lowes had both #4 and #6 at the same price. Even Homedepot's #6 is similarly priced as Lowes #4. So I went with #4 thinking this will also give me some sort of future proofing. Most of the labor is installing/fishing the damn wires. I just don't want to do it again if I don't have to, especially if the cost is just $50 more. But thank you for your suggestion to do the #6 for THHN hot and #10 THHN for ground. That price comes out to be $300 (including shipping) vs lowes #4/#8 comes out to $422.

I did look at NMB wire but they were actually more expensive than what I have put together above. Almost no one carries #4/2 NMB and #6/2 NMB was more expensive. Even at WireAndCableYourway.com its more expensive than ordering 2 #6 and 1 #10 in 100 ft length.

Let me ask other supply houses around where I live and see what works out best for me. Sometimes convenience of going to the local store and picking up what you need beats the few $$ you might save otherwise. But good to know that from Ampacity prospective, #6 would work just fine for my purpose.

I checked the panel and yes I have SquareD breakers. So the one I have mentioned above will work just fine.

I am not sure about permit. I guess I would need an electrician to do that and would also involve inspection. I will try to ask around if an electrician is willing do this work if I buy the material. Most won't as they want to bring their own equipment/material.

 

[brkaus]

Thhn (individual wiring) requires conduit. Full stop.

 

[jcanoe]

Watch a video on how to work with metallic clad (MC) wire. The wire inside the cladding is THHN, i.e. #6 would work with a 60 amp circuit for charging at 48 amps.

Perfect for attics and unfinished basements; standard MC wire is not approved for outdoor or underground installation or use in wet environents.

You need to wear work gloves.

You need to use MC wire clamps.

 

[Art84]

Thhn (individual wiring) requires conduit. Full stop.

Not conduit explicitly.

According to the National Electrical Code (NEC) Art 300, Individual conductors must be installed in a raceway, cable, or enclosure.
So if you have a "raceway" or "enclosure" where cables can be protected from physical damage (that's the main purpose of conduit), it's also allowed to do so.

Better to check with an electrician in your state, if the way how cables are currently installed behind the joists is considered a "raceway" or "enclosure".

 

[Kairide]

If you have this many questions and didn’t even know permits were involved you need to hire a licensed electrician.

 

[canbonbon]

Thhn (individual wiring) requires conduit. Full stop.

Thank you. Got it. Will go for Romex instead. More specifically: a 6/2 NM-B Wire w/ Ground. Its reasonably priced and provides 55 Amps from Ampacity prospective. I am hoping I won't need any conduit for this one. Let me know.

6-2 Romex® Brand SIMpull® Type NM-B Cable - Cable Cabana

Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable. 600 Volt. Copper Conductors. Color-Coded Jacket. Four Conductor Available With Two Neutrals. SIMpull® Jacket Designed for Easier Pulling. Southwire® Romex® Brand SIMpull® NM-B (nonmetallic-sheathed) cable may be used for both exposed and concealed work in normally dry...

cablecabana.com

Or this
Amazon 6/2 Wire

 

[canbonbon]

If you have this many questions and didn’t even know permits were involved you need to hire a licensed electrician.

Agreed. As I said I am already looking for an electrician who'd let me buy the material. Haven't found anyone yet.

 

[Art84]

Thank you. Got it. Will go for Romex instead. More specifically: a 6/2 NM-B Wire w/ Ground. Its reasonably priced and provides 55 Amps from Ampacity prospective. I am hoping I won't need any conduit for this one. Let me know.

There are many debates around that 55amp rated cable is not suitable for 48A installation because don't meet the 20% rule. But many people install those and do just fine.

Check here: Tesla Listed electrician using NM-B 6/2 and configures 48A of Max charging current | Tesla Motors Club

 

[canbonbon]

It is almost impossible to find #4/2 Romex cable. Even the electricians I spoke to mentioned only 6/2 wire for this run. Hmm, looks like I am back to square one.

 

[Art84]

It is almost impossible to find #4/2 Romex cable. Even the electricians I spoke to mentioned only 6/2 wire for this run. Hmm, looks like I am back to square one.

#4/2 Romex does not exist. Probably double-check with your electrician, if in your situation you need any kind of "raceway" for THHN cable or not. If yes, just make the math of the cheapest "raceway". It's not necessary should be an expensive metal conduit, because your cable will not be exposed to outside or potential physical damage.
Also, an option to use 6/2 MC cable, which is 75amp rated, but it's more expensive. Good luck ))

 

[RedSupraT]

I'd say just get some 4/3 Romex but if you're talking 90ft, that's gonna get pricy.

 

[brkaus]

I’d do 4/3 romex for 60a/48a charging. Or 6/2 MC. (Example- 6/2 Metal Clad (MC) Cable with Ground, Aluminum Armored, Stranded Copper Conductor (25Ft Cut) https://a.co/d/3nEDREe)

PVC conduit is pretty easy to work with as an option for Thhn.

I’ve never seen anyone consider tucked up next to joists as a “raceway”.

 

[canbonbon]

Ok now I have two quotes from local electricians and both are quoting 6/3 Romex and say that this is what they install Tesla chargers with. Both the electricians I got were from Tesla website reference. When I questioned they said it will easily support 48 Amp. I did ask them why do they need 6/3 and why not 6/2 one said they purchase this wire in bulk so its a cheaper option for them. The other one did not reply.

Folks here are saying #4 but the licensed electricians are saying #6. They will pull the permit and get it inspected as well.

So now what?

 

[RedSupraT]

As others have already said, tons of people use 6/3 Romex and a 60amp fuse with zero issues. Does it work? Yes. Is it technically correct? No

 

[Sophias_dad]

Ok now I have two quotes from local electricians and both are quoting 6/3 Romex and say that this is what they install Tesla chargers with. Both the electricians I got were from Tesla website reference. When I questioned they said it will easily support 48 Amp. I did ask them why do they need 6/3 and why not 6/2 one said they purchase this wire in bulk so its a cheaper option for them. The other one did not reply.

Folks here are saying #4 but the licensed electricians are saying #6. They will pull the permit and get it inspected as well.

So now what?

Your electricians need some retraining. They don't realize that the continuous usage of an EV mandates that the wire and breaker be oversized by 25% for a given load.

As to whether 6-2(6-3 is overkill and completely unnecessary for an HPWC) will support 48 amps, it will, and would be within the rules in Canada. But you aren't in Canada, and if your house happens to burn down your insurance will probably tell you to go screw. I myself am running 48 amps through 6-2 NMB that's in my 60F basement for its entire run, which allows me, even within the extremely conservative rules of the NEC, to run like 47.5 amps through it continuously.

 

[canbonbon]

Your electricians need some retraining. They don't realize that the continuous usage of an EV mandates that the wire and breaker be oversized by 25% for a given load.

As to whether 6-2(6-3 is overkill and completely unnecessary for an HPWC) will support 48 amps, it will, and would be within the rules in Canada. But you aren't in Canada, and if your house happens to burn down your insurance will probably tell you to go screw. I myself am running 48 amps through 6-2 NMB that's in my 60F basement for its entire run, which allows me, even within the extremely conservative rules of the NEC, to run like 47.5 amps through it continuously.

Thanks. I can't publish their names but I found them through this link:

Find a Certified Installer | Tesla

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