Need help deciding between Performance and Long Range Model 3?

[camalaio]

2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor First Test Review - Motor Trend

"It's a similar case with the brakes. Stopping from 60 mph in 113 feet is fine but hardly spectacular. It's a few feet better than the rear-drive car thanks to an increased regenerative braking effect from the front motor. (Rear motors applying too much regenerative braking can destabilize the car, so they can't regenerate to their full potential.) The Performance model's big brakes and sticky tires haul it down in a far more impressive 99 feet."

Tires + brakes, but yeah, "no difference at all" is probably a stretch. Thats a great article tho, very relevant to this thread.

It's mostly, if not all, tires. The standard brakes are perfectly capable of locking up all wheels. Tires are the difference in actual traction with the road, and make a very large difference.

 

[mal_tsla]

It’s the tires. Instrumented tests posted in these forums show that swapping to sticky PS4S from MXM4s on the same AWD vehicle reduced stopping distance by 20 feet (it was reduced from 125 feet to 105 feet for the test surface in question).

The bigger brakes may well have a different pedal feel, with different modulation characteristics, which could be very nice, but in terms of emergency stopping distance, they just are not a factor.

They do feel nicer, and stop more consistently. But, swapping to PS4s is going to cost you, what, $1800? I think if you're the kind of person who's going to swap to PS4s just get the P model.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

They do feel nicer, and stop more consistently. But, swapping to PS4s is going to cost you, what, $1800? I think if you're the kind of person who's going to swap to PS4s just get the P model.

Not appropriate for winter. Or Connecticut. Getting the Stealth is really an excellent option.

The only reason I have the P3D+ is because I wanted Track Mode and at the time the Stealth did not get it. Now it gets all the important stuff. I am in California so it is fine but it is kind of a pain and it would be super great for road trips to be able to fit Aeros. But I can’t (some would argue you can fit them on the front).
The OP sounds like she wants the Performance, but for her situation, it seems like the P3D Stealth would be perfectly appropriate, and the savings are substantial (if they produce it again). That’s really the question - when will it be available?

 

[Elle_H2]

Not appropriate for winter. Or Connecticut. Getting the Stealth is really an excellent option.

The only reason I have the P3D+ is because I wanted Track Mode and at the time the Stealth did not get it. Now it gets all the important stuff. I am in California so it is fine but it is kind of a pain and it would be super great for road trips to be able to fit Aeros. But I can’t (some would argue you can fit them on the front).
The OP sounds like she wants the Performance, but for her situation, it seems like the P3D Stealth would be perfectly appropriate, and the savings are substantial (if they produce it again). That’s really the question - when will it be available?

What tires come on the 19” sport wheels available for the LR AWD? Are they all season?

 

[MJP.P3D-]

Simple answer: Stealth. No regrets.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What tires come on the 19” sport wheels available for the LR AWD? Are they all season?

Yes.
The Tesla Model 3 Wheel and Tire Guide

Just remember you lose some of the aero benefits. If it is not a road trip car it probably does not matter much and it will still be better than the 20” tires.

Also all-seasons are legal but probably not a good idea for snow. People sometimes call them no-seasons. A specialized winter tire and second set of wheels is going to be much better. But you have an SUV for bad weather if you need it, it sounds like.

To clarify: as far as we know, the difference between the AWD and the Stealth is ONLY software, and in 2019, the rear motor part number is different (different drive unit). They used to be (in 2018) identical cars, except for software. You currently cannot upgrade after purchase.

 

[Elle_H2]

Yes.
The Tesla Model 3 Wheel and Tire Guide

Just remember you lose some of the aero benefits. If it is not a road trip car it probably does not matter much and it will still be better than the 20” tires.

Also all-seasons are legal but probably not a good idea for snow. People sometimes call them no-seasons. A specialized winter tire and second set of wheels is going to be much better. But you have an SUV for bad weather if you need it, it sounds like.

To clarify: as far as we know, the difference between the AWD and the Stealth is ONLY software, and in 2019, the rear motor part number is different (different drive unit). They used to be (in 2018) identical cars, except for software. You currently cannot upgrade after purchase.

Gotcha. So since I’m not in a huge hurry I will wait and either try to find a stealth model, or wait until they’re offered again. If it takes too long, I think I’ll flip a coin!

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[PACEMD]

If you buy a P model just to put it in chill, you've nerfed the very thing you're paying a lot of money for, no?

I'm very obviously not in the category of people considering a P model (especially the physical components), but putting it in chill seems to be the most counterproductive thing one could do with one.
.

You're totally missing the point. The point is that the classic argument of......oh well, the performance is not really much faster anyway and the range is lower........works better as a justification than an actual argument. Neither part is inherently true. The argument that there is no point in having an option if you don't intend to use it 100% of the time is even less viable, it won't even hold solid water.

 

[PACEMD]

This was a reference to the 20” PS4S.

Agreed. (For the Stealth.)

You do not have to turn on Chill mode to get excellent efficiency in a P3D Stealth. You can enjoy it and be efficient. It’s not either or.

Of course, wheels/tires and suspension affect driving efficiency. I wasn't suggesting you need to use Chill mode to drive efficiently. You do not. What I was suggesting was that if you need the extra range on a distance drive and can't control yourself to drive efficiently otherwise, you can always use Chill mode. Like a child safety cap. On my routine 150 mile commute the "miles/range" on my P3D- drops from 310 to anywhere from 160 to 60, meaning up to a 100-mile range loss difference on 150-mile trip. Driving 85 mph+ and taking no care to conserve power use can cost me an extra 100 miles of range. I have never recorded numbers but a similar energy consumption difference is true in my 4Runner TRDP. Most trips I don't care, just a few dollars extra in electricity or gas. When I need the extra distance or when it's 20 degrees below zero Fahrenheit, different story. I understood the type of tires discussed but cracking at 20 degrees F? Really? That's almost summer here........

 

[SK360]

I'll be blunt and likely get some push back, a lot of push back. If you feel you are still 25 and have raging testosterone, get the P. Otherwise get the LR AWD. Are you ever going to notice the difference between 0-60 in 3 seconds and 0-60 in 4 seconds? To my mind, it really comes down to that. Do you have so much money that you'll happily leave your tire tread at stop lights by punching the accelerator pedal when you see green?

You must be fun at parties

 

[Knightshade]

Tires + brakes, but yeah, "no difference at all" is probably a stretch.

No, it's not a stretch, it's physics.

It's 100% the tires.

Since the tires, not the brakes, are what actually stop the car.


See this excellent article if unclear on this-
GRM Pulp Friction

They do feel nicer, and stop more consistently. But, swapping to PS4s is going to cost you, what, $1800?

I'm not sure where you are buying tires- but I bet they take really nice vacations

PS4s on 18" wheels should cost about half that.

 

[mal_tsla]

No, it's not a stretch, it's physics.

It's 100% the tires.

Since the tires, not the brakes, are what actually stop the car.


See this excellent article if unclear on this-
GRM Pulp Friction





I'm not sure where you are buying tires- but I bet they take really nice vacations

PS4s on 18" wheels should cost about half that.

You can get PS4s on model 3 18s for $900 out the door?

Last I checked it was about $1200 OTD (tax, install, disposal etc).

Maybe you're buying them wholesale and mounting them yourself?

 

[SageBrush]

OP: What do you drive now ?

My only advice is to stay away from 20" wheels in CT.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I understood the type of tires discussed but cracking at 20 degrees F? Really? That's almost summer here........

Really. The details are outlined on the Tire Rack description of the PS4S. Exactly how much margin there is...who knows. But they work extremely poorly in freezing weather regardless so it is somewhat academic.

 

[StellarRat]

You can't decide if you want to go far or you want to go fast??

 

[StellarRat]

You've clearly never been to NJ.

Is Tesla coming out with a tracked model?

 

[BE_M3]

Long Range AWD with Areo wheels is plenty fast Save your money then go buy aftermarket wheels. I bought the TSportline 18" wheels and kept the stock tires.

 

[Quorky]

Go for the Stealth Performance. If potholes are a concern around you don't get the 20s. I am in NYC and is a big reason why I stepped down to Stealth instead of full performance. Plus you save a big chunk of cash and the higher clearance will marginally help you in the snow department. Otherwise, brakes are fine and if you like the spoiler you can get it for about 200 or so. Now, every time I drive around or at a charging station I look for the red line below the "dual motor" to spot the "sleeper" models...

 

[wayoutwest]

Tick the performance box... you won't be disappointed, won't have buyers remorse, and will have a better resale car in the long run. The upgrades (to an enthusiast) are worth the $6K price of admission)

 

[PACEMD]

Really. The details are outlined on the Tire Rack description of the PS4S. Exactly how much margin there is...who knows. But they work extremely poorly in freezing weather regardless so it is somewhat academic.

Well that sucks.........