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Need Help planning out home charger(s) installs. Appreciate any Pros that can weigh in...

Got it. And yes, when I was finishing my last post, I realized that I mentioned 14-50 at the top, and I understand that it is absolutely incorrect to install a 14-50 on a 2wire+1ground line as it's missing the fourth wire, i.e. the neutral. I got it.

As for your explanation about the my very eloquently and technically put "more electrical stuff;" again thanks. I guess I was assuming that the cost of a sub-panel, etc for a Gen3 would be significantly more than the cost of a junction box (next thing I need to look up for curiosity) and Polaris connectors and whatever else.
 
@Rocky_H, and everyone else: Thank you again! Honestly, it is so nice, and as of late somewhat refreshing, to be able get helpful info and advice online.
As I said, I'm still hiring an electrician to do this, even though a family member has his own construction business, and my hands aren't backwards either, but I know my limitations; that said, I'm the kind of person who loves to learn and understand, and also needs to learn and understand, plus the more I've read about this the more interested and fascinated I've become by it.

So, first you just saved me some money, because now I understand that I do not need to run 100 plus feet of 6awg neutral wire. The only thing that will be installed on this line in the garage is either a 6-50 or 14-50 outlet OR a WC or possibly in the future a sub-panel with two circuits for two WCs.
As a side note, I now finally understand all those diagrams about how an electrical circuit works, and I now understand that in a 120x2=240v circuit (maybe the following terminology is wrong) but the second 120v line takes the place of the neutral in that it's returning or completing the circuit. (Now that I've said it, I'm sure my terminology is wrong, but I think the general principle is correct).

I believe I understood everything from the answers above except for the bolded part here: "No, you do not need to run a neutral. Even with Gen2, it would have required at least a junction box to do the Y-splitting of the wires with connectors, so there would have been something there anyway. In the Gen3, that box just needs to be more specifically a subpanel, because the Y-splitting has to be done with breakers." What "something" are you referring to? This is purely an educational question as I now understand the practical effects of what I need or wish to have installed, which is basically a 6/2 wire running to a 6-50 or a WC.
Putting in a sub panel right off the bat allows you to use cheaper aluminum conductors, so your cost for the conductors may actually be less, even with a neutral. Sub panels and breakers still cost $ though.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
7,845
9,870
Boise, ID
As for your explanation about the my very eloquently and technically put "more electrical stuff;" again thanks. I guess I was assuming that the cost of a sub-panel, etc for a Gen3 would be significantly more than the cost of a junction box (next thing I need to look up for curiosity) and Polaris connectors and whatever else.
It is a bit more, but I don't think a whole lot more.
 
Putting in a sub panel right off the bat allows you to use cheaper aluminum conductors, so your cost for the conductors may actually be less, even with a neutral. Sub panels and breakers still cost $ though.
Can you explain?
99% of the run of the wires will be from the main panel in the basement to the outlet/WC or sub panel in the garage. If one or multiple WC are going to be installed there in the garage, they're probably going to be within inches of the sub panel. So where's the savings from running cheaper aluminum conductors?
 
Can you explain?
99% of the run of the wires will be from the main panel in the basement to the outlet/WC or sub panel in the garage. If one or multiple WC are going to be installed there in the garage, they're probably going to be within inches of the sub panel. So where's the savings from running cheaper aluminum conductors?
The manual for the wall connector states that you must use copper conductors. If you install a sub panel, most of the wire length can be aluminum and you only need copper from the sub panel to the WC. #1 aluminum also allows you to have the sub panel on a 100A breaker, whereas #6 copper would only allow a 60A breaker.
 
The manual for the wall connector states that you must use copper conductors. If you install a sub panel, most of the wire length can be aluminum and you only need copper from the sub panel to the WC. #1 aluminum also allows you to have the sub panel on a 100A breaker, whereas #6 copper would only allow a 60A breaker.
Yes understood, and I plan to ask electrician #1 (that stopped by yesterday) if we can run Aluminum instead of coper on a 100A breaker. Will ask the same from electrician #2 that's yet to come by.
What's the approximate cost difference between a foot of say #6 copper vs. #1 aluminum?
 
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My local supply house has single conductor #6 cu for $5.12 per meter and #1 Al for $3.03 per meter. Regional price differences, measurement units and currency may apply.
Thanks, before I make an ass out of myself by asking the electricians, at least electrician #1 is proposing to do almost the entire run outside of the house, with numerous 90 degree angles to navigate; is aluminum (and what I imagine is a thicker #1 aluminum vs #6 Cu) suitable for that?
 
@Rocky_H Getting closer to moving forward with the charger install. I just re-read this thread and it seems like you answered the question, but I want to double/triple-check. QUESTION: If I run only 2 hot wires and a ground, so no neutral, would I be able to in the future convert the 6-50 outlet to a sub-panel to which I would at that point in time connect two HPWC?

I ask because someone in another thread mentioned that I would need the neutral wire for the sub-panel, in the garage, if I wanted to install 2 HPWC. And @pb2000 I think was saying that as well, above.

Thanks again.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
7,845
9,870
Boise, ID
I just re-read this thread and it seems like you answered the question, but I want to double/triple-check. QUESTION: If I run only 2 hot wires and a ground, so no neutral, would I be able to in the future convert the 6-50 outlet to a sub-panel to which I would at that point in time connect two HPWC?
I was thinking, "Oh yeah, I remember that argument with some guy. Let me go find that again." So I applied my Google-fu and located that comment...and it's comment #11 in this thread.

I ask because someone in another thread mentioned that I would need the neutral wire for the sub-panel, in the garage, if I wanted to install 2 HPWC. And @pb2000 I think was saying that as well, above.
I am not directly in the electrician field (I have an EE degree, but do computer chip layout), so I won't put my confidence level all the way up on this one, as I haven't seen the code sections about this exact issue. The best I have is this MikeHolt forum thread I posted earlier:

And most of them seem pretty confident that if a panel is only going to be carrying 240V loads, then there is no purpose/need/requirement for a neutral at all. And someone mentioned:
"The only requirement is that a feeder neutral be sized for it's maximum load. If that's zero, so is the requirement."

So that is something that makes sense to me, where the code is going to require it if it is going to be used at all, but if it will not be used, then there should be no requirement for it to be there. So basically code could obstruct someone later, where they want to put in a 120V circuit and just wouldn't be allowed to if it has no neutral.

So that is about as solid as I am going to get on that one.
 
I was thinking, "Oh yeah, I remember that argument with some guy. Let me go find that again." So I applied my Google-fu and located that comment...and it's comment #11 in this thread.


I am not directly in the electrician field (I have an EE degree, but do computer chip layout), so I won't put my confidence level all the way up on this one, as I haven't seen the code sections about this exact issue. The best I have is this MikeHolt forum thread I posted earlier:

And most of them seem pretty confident that if a panel is only going to be carrying 240V loads, then there is no purpose/need/requirement for a neutral at all. And someone mentioned:
"The only requirement is that a feeder neutral be sized for it's maximum load. If that's zero, so is the requirement."

So that is something that makes sense to me, where the code is going to require it if it is going to be used at all, but if it will not be used, then there should be no requirement for it to be there. So basically code could obstruct someone later, where they want to put in a 120V circuit and just wouldn't be allowed to if it has no neutral.

So that is about as solid as I am going to get on that one.
Great thanks.
I’ll check with my electrician. He’s got a million years in the industry and has done a ton of Tesla installs, including half the people I know. He knew that I didn’t need a neutral if going with a HPWC, but wasn’t sure about whether it would be needed for a UMC—I told him, this I was 100% clear on and he said “ok” if you’re sure. But I guess I never brought up the option of a future sun-panel, well I did mention it but in passing.

I’m going back and forth now on GFI, outlet, 6-50 adapter vs just setting up one, for now, HPWC right away. I’ve got a few days to mull it over.

Thanks again.
 

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