Need Insight...Model 3 vs id4

[talkingevs]

We had to sell my wife's bolt due to the car fires and are looking at another ev. We love our current 18 LR model 3 but I don't know if thr sr+ would be as good. We put in a reservation but it keeps getting delayed right now to October. We started looking at the mach e and id4. The mach e felt cheap and the demo already had several broken things so that us out. However, the id4 was very nice and after the tax credit is the same cost. Help us with the pros and cons of both cars!!

 

[bjrosen]

Coming from the Bolt you might want to avoid any car that uses LG batteries. An ID.3 with LG batteries burned to the ground in the Netherlands last week. You should also watch Sandy Munro's tear down of the ID.4, he's not a fan. He was pretty positive on the Mach-E, loved the front motor or the Mach-E, hated the rear motor (two different suppliers).
The case for the ID.4 is that it's different from the Model 3 you already have. The 2021 SR+ is more refined than your 2018 but it's drivers experience should be the same.

 

[Apprunner]

We had to sell my wife's bolt due to the car fires and are looking at another ev. We love our current 18 LR model 3 but I don't know if thr sr+ would be as good. We put in a reservation but it keeps getting delayed right now to October. We started looking at the mach e and id4. The mach e felt cheap and the demo already had several broken things so that us out. However, the id4 was very nice and after the tax credit is the same cost. Help us with the pros and cons of both cars!!

Try to get the LFP SR+. You can charge to 100% everyday and has almost no battery degradation over time. Since you live in a hot climate, barely any range loss. It seems like a far superior solution to the normal battery.

 

[UncertainTimes]

The ID4 seems incredibly boring

 

[bjrosen]

Try to get the LFP SR+. You can charge to 100% everyday and has almost no battery degradation over time. Since you live in a hot climate, barely any range loss. It seems like a far superior solution to the normal battery.

LFP is also the safest chemistry. The downside of LFPs is bad winter charging speeds, last year on the old Tesla forums there were German's complaining about Level 2 charging speeds at Superchargers in the winter. Tesla has supposedly addressed this but until next winter we won't know if it's fixed, on the other side of the coin I've seen a mention that the summer charging speeds are actually better than the NMC batteries. If you live in a warm climate then LFP is a no-brainer.

 

[talkingevs]

How would I know if my model 3 is going to have lfp or not batteries

 

[stopcrazypp]

How would I know if my model 3 is going to have lfp or not batteries

The early reports says it is 262 miles EPA on the window sticker vs 263 miles for the conventional batteries. In the online estimate it shows as 253. However, I don't think you will know for sure until you actually reach the point of confirming the order. You can probably ask your SA to confirm when it gets to your point in line.

For the ID.4, note that the current ones coming out of Germany still use LG Chem cells. Not sure if you want to jump into that if you are coming from a Bolt (especially when the cause of the recent ID.3 fire in the Netherlands is not clear). I only say this given the LG Chem problem has crossed 3 country's factories already (Nanjing, China factory for Kona EV; Ochang, South Korea and Holland, USA for Bolt EV), and I have low confidence now it won't cross to a 4th one, especially given LG Chem doesn't even appear to really know what part of the process went wrong.

The ones being made in the USA will use SK Innovation cells made in the USA, but mass production doesn't start until next year.

 

[Apprunner]

How would I know if my model 3 is going to have lfp or not batteries

You can go to a retail location and ask the sales rep to find one for you.

 

[jbiggs2]

My wife and I tested an ID.4. It was very slow compared to the Model 3.

 

[GtiMart]

Correct, the ID.4 is not in the same ballpark as the model 3 and Y in terms of acceleration. Looking at TeslaBjorn's Dragy numbers... : 1st edition 82kWh ID.4 is in the ~8.2s 0-100kph, the GTX is around 6.2s. Model 3 LR 2021 is at 4.4s. He doesn't post an SR+ slip but I think it would be in the ~5.5s range.

 

[Big Earl]

Coming from almost two decades of Volkswagen ownership, if your concern is the SR+ not being “as good” as the LR, don’t look at Volkswagens.

The SR+ is a very nice car. It feels and drives just like you’d expect compared to the LR.

Regarding the ownership experience, Volkswagen’s service was very poor and I’d be very concerned about their ability to address any problems with the ID.4. Ford is facing similar service problems with the Mach-E. Surprisingly, Tesla excels in this area compared to the competition.

 

[Zacster]

The SR+ is supposedly more nimble feeling than the LR once moving but lags from a dead stop. The lighter weight of the SR+ makes up for the extra power of the LR. And the SR+ is more efficient so it takes less charge to go the same distance as the LR, making up somewhat for the slower charge times, and this only really matters at superchargers on long trips.

At least this is what I keep telling myself after 6 months of an SR+. In any case I'm more than happy with it. Even my brother in law with his Boxster thought my car was a rocket. You really need to know how to drive a Boxster to get the most out of it but that isn't so true with an M3. You just floor it and it takes off, especially once moving.

The VW with 8.2s 0-100 isn't that fast.

 

[bjrosen]

I had a Volt and it's 8 second 0-60 was more than good enough, it felt plenty peppy. The ID.4 is supposed to be dull, it's a family hauler and dull is what VW was shooting for, coming from a Bolt the ID.4 should be pretty comparable. However it's LG batteries would be a show stopper for me, I wouldn't buy any car that uses LG batteries right now and that also includes the Mach-E. There haven't been any Mach-E fires and that might be because Ford put in really big buffers on their battery pack, it's a 100KWh pack with only 88KWh available so crossing out the Mach-E might be unfair to Ford. However LG is so tainted right now it's best to avoid any car that has them. Hyundai's have had the same fire problem as the Bolt, I don't know if they've switched suppliers on the current cars but unless I knew that they had SK batteries and not LG batteries I stay away from them also. That pretty much leaves Tesla as the only choice.

 

[Davidw4806]

We drove one and it was very nice. Nothing that screamed race car but we did not like some of the glitches that the software had that were not being fixed. Once they claimed they would try to have them fixed by year end we went and test drove the model 3. My wife loved it. It was a fun car, had software that works, 98% of the time, we ordered a model 3 SR+ and cancelled the ID4 order. It now appears a lot of people have cancelled their VW orders for various reasons. It is cheaper than the model 3 SR+ but once I crunched all the numbers it turned out to be only $1,500 less after the tax credit. We have since upgraded to an order for a model 3 LR due to my wife picking out places she wants to visit that are far enough to make a difference using an LR rather than the SR+ and we also like some of the features that get added to the LR.

 

[cucubits]

Why not consider the upcoming Audi Q4 e-tron? It's on an ID4 platform and it will be an overall much nicer car than both the ID and Tesla. Not everything comes down to acceleration...

 

[Apprunner]

Keep in mind that the LFP SR+ is a couple hundred pounds heavier but has more horsepower so it evens out in terms of speed. Probably feels heavier in corners though as it splits the difference in weight between the regular SR+ and LR AWD. Also, 8s to 60mph is glacial by todays ICE standards and even slower by EV standards. Completely pathetic...what were they thinking.

 

[THXULTRA]

SR+ is probably the best bang for your buck EV out right now. Only problem with the SR+ is it is rear drive but doesn't look like you ever drive in snow so that isn't a issue. Also lack of the premium sound system. It is also the most efficient EV right now. Not a fan of the ID 4 but that is personal taste. Haven't heard anything bad about it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I had a Volt and it's 8 second 0-60 was more than good enough, it felt plenty peppy. The ID.4 is supposed to be dull, it's a family hauler and dull is what VW was shooting for, coming from a Bolt the ID.4 should be pretty comparable. However it's LG batteries would be a show stopper for me, I wouldn't buy any car that uses LG batteries right now and that also includes the Mach-E. There haven't been any Mach-E fires and that might be because Ford put in really big buffers on their battery pack, it's a 100KWh pack with only 88KWh available so crossing out the Mach-E might be unfair to Ford. However LG is so tainted right now it's best to avoid any car that has them. Hyundai's have had the same fire problem as the Bolt, I don't know if they've switched suppliers on the current cars but unless I knew that they had SK batteries and not LG batteries I stay away from them also. That pretty much leaves Tesla as the only choice.

From what I hear, Hyundai is installing SK batteries for the recall. They had them ready anyways given their Kia stablemates were using them already. They are probably going to stick with SK going forward for the time being. If they didn't have SK ready there is no way they can handle the recall in any sane amount of time, as LG is bogged down and especially given even GM is not confident any replacement cells LG is producing would be defect free.

VW also has the SK option (the US made ones will use SK cells made in the US, only possible because of settlement between SK and LG for SK stealing trade secrets). However, I don't think it'll be fast enough for the OP as the SK and US made ID.4s won't be made in volume until next year (plus OP need to be careful not to buy leftover model).

GM is in a different situation, LG Chem is their only route forward (even the next gen Ultium batteries are LG pouch cells of similar design). They must fix the issue, but it'll be a very hard and a long wait for people that are going to hold on to their Bolts. Some of them just jumped from a pre-2020 model into a later one too. I suggested some people do that too, and now I regret it, so I'm going to warn people to tread carefully in terms of another LG Chem car if they just came from a Bolt.

 

[usna92]

From what I hear, Hyundai is installing SK batteries for the recall. They had them ready anyways given their Kia stablemates were using them already. They are probably going to stick with SK going forward for the time being. If they didn't have SK ready there is no way they can handle the recall in any sane amount of time, as LG is bogged down and especially given even GM is not confident any replacement cells LG is producing would be defect free.

VW also has the SK option (the US made ones will use SK cells made in the US, only possible because of settlement between SK and LG for SK stealing trade secrets). However, I don't think it'll be fast enough for the OP as the SK and US made ID.4s won't be made in volume until next year (plus OP need to be careful not to buy leftover model).

GM is in a different situation, LG Chem is their only route forward (even the next gen Ultium batteries are LG pouch cells of similar design). They must fix the issue, but it'll be a very hard and a long wait for people that are going to hold on to their Bolts. Some of them just jumped from a pre-2020 model into a later one too. I suggested some people do that too, and now I regret it, so I'm going to warn people to tread carefully in terms of another LG Chem car if they just came from a Bolt.

I am in that boat. Started with a 2017 and traded it in for a 2020 because the price with incentive worked out the numbers for us. We also had a 2019, subject to recall that Chevy repurchased for a 2021. We are in the process of selling back our 2020 (with a LR3 on order) and we will see what GM does this time before we pull the trigger selling back the 2021. The Bolt is a competent car (certainly NOT a Tesla) but reasonable for the market. I am hoping they quickly sort the battery issue because more EV options are better for everyone, but until they do, none of the GM, KIA, VW platforms are in the cards. If the 2020 repurchase goes well, we might end up ordering another LR3.

 

[talkingevs]

We decided to cancel the id4 order and get another tesla. Haven't been the happiest with their service and warranty coverage but their batteries have been safer and more efficient it seems.