Negative Camber in the Rear and Expensive Tires

[lolachampcar]

SS,
That would require re-heat treating the material. You would also want to make very sure the parent material Tesla used in the extrusion was a "weldable" alloy. You might find the process more cost effective simply to have a water jet shop raw cut a set for you and then final machine the bores to your requirements. I went cheap on some of my water jet bits and did not core them to save on cycle time. I do not think the little bit of extra weight made a lick of difference.

It has been my experience that less toe in will improve wear at the expense of straight line stability. However, toe does not fix all the wear associated with over two degrees of negative camber.

 

[Sunfishsolar.ca]

Thanks for the insight. I also have a local Waterjet friend. What alloy did you use. Just got an Tesla alignment today. +.43 toe and -2.41! They actually moved the toe up from +.23!

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Sorry just read earlier post on the alloy used.

 

[KevinMS]

Greg, 0.43 deg. total toe on the rear is the middle of the spec requirement of 0.30 to 0.50 deg. Your camber (one sided), however, is among the worst I've seen. Mine was -2.2 deg. and, one year ago, I adjusted it down to -1.0 using the adjustable links. With a total toe set to 0.18 deg, tire wear is even.

Recently, I've experienced severe tire wear on the inside rib of the FRONT tires, excessive tire noise and tramlining after the SC adjusted the toe during the 3 yr service. I discovered that the total toe spec changed from +.10 to -.30 to a new spec of .00 to -.40! The front end has been readjusted back to +.09 total toe and it's driving great again. But the damage is done. New tires are on order.

Good luck!

P.S. Classic S85, VIN: 0015xx.

 

[lolachampcar]

I run a total of between .1 and .15 of toe in on the rear. Straight line stability suffers a little bit (more willing to follow road imperfections) but wear and range are improved.

 

[qwk]

Thanks for the insight. I also have a local Waterjet friend. What alloy did you use. Just got an Tesla alignment today. +.43 toe and -2.41! They actually moved the toe up from +.23!

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Sorry just read earlier post on the alloy used.

Most SC's have zero clue about alignments. They are just numbers to them, and the vast majority of the time the car will shread tires after they touch it. It's better to let an independent shop just set it up exactly where you want it.

 

[linkster]

Hi, I have read the entire thread

Kudos to you for taking the time to read the entire thread! I have found some related threads with alignment, adjustable chamber links, crooked steering wheel in their title including one listed below are also a good source of info as well. I have found that Hypermiler (and of course champ) are the most knowledgeable around here.

I am starting to think that the reason why I can run less toe than champ and not wander/hunt is due to my greatly reduced camber (both front and rear).

Definitely agree with Kevin as to the efficiency gains, as I will burn 265-270 Wh/mile at 65-70 in the summer on the flats with A/C running on 21 Conti's. I am hopeful that i can shave another 100-200 wh off with my latest round of enhancements. And yeah, I always write on the service ticket "please, no wash, no alignment, and no tire rotation." I prefer to handle these small but critical functions myself.


[lolachampcar] Performance Upgrade Efforts - Page 25

 

[jerry33]

Most SC's have zero clue about alignments. They are just numbers to them, and the vast majority of the time the car will shread tires after they touch it. It's better to let an independent shop just set it up exactly where you want it.

Agreed. Out of five alignments they've come close once. I just wish the only place around here that looks as if it can do a proper job wasn't fifty miles away.

 

[lolachampcar]

I really got lucky. The guys at the West Palm Service Center really know there stuff! I've had great success with them explaining what I am looking for and ultimately getting what I wanted.

 

[artsci]

I really got lucky. The guys at the West Palm Service Center really know there stuff! I've had great success with them explaining what I am looking for and ultimately getting what I wanted.

Since I installed the adjustable rear camber links my tire wear is now something resembling normal. But with the adjustable links on the car Tesla Service now refuses to do an alignment. But that's ok with me as I have a local shop that gets it spot on and for far less inconvenience.

 

[redi]

Agreed. Out of five alignments they've come close once. I just wish the only place around here that looks as if it can do a proper job wasn't fifty miles away.

This has been my experience too and have been using a track shop for both installing longer links and doing/monitoring alignment on all corners. The only way to go imo and things have been good after the first set of rears self destructed.

 

[lolachampcar]

I can understand Tesla's reluctance and it was one of my fears with the sell direct model. Tesla tightly controls all information about the car (although alignment specs are available). They are the only capable source of maintenance for many many things. If you make a change like the upper links, Tesla is put in the difficult position of not working on the car as it might be argued that they have approved or otherwise accepted the modification of a critical item like a suspension component. The easy answer in most cases is to refuse to work on the car. Similar issues exist with things like salvage titled vehicles. Dealers, on the other hand, could really care less and will work on most anything. They may not submit a warranty claim if your efforts might be to blame for the issue but they will still fix it. The manufacturer does not have as much freedom. It's part of the price we pay for all the good that comes with the direct sales model.

 

[qwk]

Since I installed the adjustable rear camber links my tire wear is now something resembling normal. But with the adjustable links on the car Tesla Service now refuses to do an alignment. But that's ok with me as I have a local shop that gets it spot on and for far less inconvenience.

I wonder what happens if a DU swap was needed under warranty? Would they let the car go back to the customer unaligned because of aftermarket links? That could potentially be dangerous....

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I can understand Tesla's reluctance and it was one of my fears with the sell direct model. Tesla tightly controls all information about the car (although alignment specs are available). They are the only capable source of maintenance for many many things. If you make a change like the upper links, Tesla is put in the difficult position of not working on the car as it might be argued that they have approved or otherwise accepted the modification of a critical item like a suspension component. The easy answer in most cases is to refuse to work on the car. Similar issues exist with things like salvage titled vehicles. Dealers, on the other hand, could really care less and will work on most anything. They may not submit a warranty claim if your efforts might be to blame for the issue but they will still fix it. The manufacturer does not have as much freedom. It's part of the price we pay for all the good that comes with the direct sales model.

Yes. While the direct sales model is much better for buying a vehicle, it's a total nightmare for tinkerers and enthusiasts.

 

[lolachampcar]

If my DU needs love, the links are coming off first so Tesla does not have to concern itself with what I have done to the car.

 

[Lloyd]

I was told that adjustable links were to be removed and not replaced if they are encountered.

 

[KevinMS]

May not be the case everywhere with the adjustable links. The Seattle SC replaced leaking axle shaft seals on the drive unit and did a toe alignment two months ago. They pointed out that the cross camber was out of spec and recommended that I take the car back to my alignment shop to correct.

 

[qwk]

I was told that adjustable links were to be removed and not replaced if they are encountered.

What does this mean? They steal your adjustable links?

 

[Lloyd]

What does this mean? They steal your adjustable links?

Guess I should be more clear. A service manager from Tesla said to me that their directive was " if they were encountered in a service job and they had to be removed, they(Tesla) was not authorized to put them back on" . Only original Tesla parts.

 

[lolachampcar]

That makes perfect sense. Tesla really can not touch these things without tacit acceptance (which, as the manufacturer, they simply can not allow in any way, shape or form)....... There are a few considerations when dealing with manufacturer owned service and this is one of them.

 

[artsci]

I wonder what happens if a DU swap was needed under warranty? Would they let the car go back to the customer unaligned because of aftermarket links? That could potentially be dangerous....

Had that done. Tesla replaced my drive unit and the alignment was the same as when I brought the car in for service -- and they didn't touch the alignment. So no danger there...

 

[BobM]

Wow. I just read the whole thread. Thanks to LolaChampCar, Chris1howell, SUPRKAR, and others that have worked to sort out the camber problem in the rear end. I will buy some adjustable links as soon as the BBC guys return my call next week.

-bob

Model S 60 (coil)
Salvage car - No warranty
Experienced road race driver - no fear of throttle lift oversteer