Negative Camber in the Rear and Expensive Tires

[KevinMS]

Indeed, my favorite thread due to the severe tire wear and alignment problems I've had.
Recieved an odd call from Tesla Service yesterday. They "noticed" that I had adjustable camber links (This is the 4th annual. They've noticed them in the past, too.) and wanted to know where I got them so they could tell other customers that have experienced severe tire wear. Definitely a change in attitude.

 

[pimp-boy]

Indeed, my favorite thread due to the severe tire wear and alignment problems I've had.
Recieved an odd call from Tesla Service yesterday. They "noticed" that I had adjustable camber links (This is the 4th annual. They've noticed them in the past, too.) and wanted to know where I got them so they could tell other customers that have experienced severe tire wear. Definitely a change in attitude.

Where did you get yours from and the cost? Did you have to do any core charge or press out your bushings?

 

[Edmond]

It's BBC Speed & Machine . Joe there is very knowledgeable, but he dislikes email.

He hand-machines them from a billet of high-strength aluminum alloy. He needs your cores or else he has to buy the upper struts from Tesla to get the bushings.

Because it's a specialty part it's $1,000 for a pair. (How much are tires?)

If you have a dual motor car you have a ball-bushing on the hub end and a regular bushing on t'other; be sure to get it the right way on.

 

[Naonak]

Edmond, do these work with the air suspension, or are they just for the coils? I took both my cars into the service center yesterday and today and they can't get the negative camber below about -1.75 at best on either car. Both cars have air suspension.

What do I need to do to get the camber closer to -1.0 on air?

 

[Edmond]

Rear camber is fixed (and very wrong on all Teslas), and that's what this thread is all about. You need to replace the upper link with one that is adjustable from BBC Speed, on the two rear sides.

I have air. Doesn't matter air or coil, as long as you have camber set correctly, at the height you use the most. There's only so much you can do.

Even better if you sit in the car while they adjust, especially if you're a big guy. Make sure they tighten the lock-nuts, and you might mark them with nail polish. (along with all other suspension settings)

 

[lolachampcar]

Tesla decided to use one suspension geometry for both coil and air. Coil requires a higher unloaded ride height as air can correct for vehicle loading. Negative camber increases with lower ride height. Add all of this up and air cars carry a lot more negative camber than coil cars which is why air cars have the problem and coils do not. I've not bothered to adjust rear camber on my wife's coil MS and inside shoulder wear has not been a problem.

 

[mesalum]

Upon doing research because my rear tires have wear on the inside I found this thread. Read all posts. I have concluded I need to have my rear toe checked. Many people posted the alignment specs as indicated in their owners manual. The current owners manual at 'My Tesla' does not have any specs. I had downloaded and saved the owners manual every time it changed upon taking delivery of my Model S. I have found that versions 5.9, 6.0, and 6.2 of the owners manual have the Alignment Specs. Starting with version 7.0 Tesla has removed the specs. I find that very interesting.

 

[lolachampcar]

The keys for rear tire wear are rear negative camber (can not be adjusted without changing parts in the rear suspension- funky bolts or longer upper control arms) and rear toe in (is adjustable).

I corded my right side rear at 20K miles using longer upper arms to remove 1 degree of negative camber and using 0.15 degrees of TOTAL toe in on the rear. I also use lowering links which exacerbates the negative camber issue (camber gain).

This was using 20" TSW wheels and Pilot Super Sports (255/40) in a square configuration.
http://lolachampcar.com/images/P85D/DSC03605.JPG

 

[linkster]

I've not bothered to adjust rear camber on my wife's coil MS and inside shoulder wear has not been a problem.

champ

Do you mind sharing wheather your bride's S has 19 or 21" wheels?

 

[mspohr]

Tesla decided to use one suspension geometry for both coil and air. Coil requires a higher unloaded ride height as air can correct for vehicle loading. Negative camber increases with lower ride height. Add all of this up and air cars carry a lot more negative camber than coil cars which is why air cars have the problem and coils do not. I've not bothered to adjust rear camber on my wife's coil MS and inside shoulder wear has not been a problem.

I wonder why I don't have this problem. I have an 85D with Air and 19" wheels. My OEM Michelin Primacy tires have 25,000 miles and the wear is exactly even across all of them. I have the air set to go to "very low" above 55 mph.
I'm happy I don't have the problem... just wondering if they changed something (my car is 76xxx).

 

[linkster]

I wonder why I don't have this problem. I have an 85D with Air and 19" wheels.

Three reasons:
1.The D cars share the "work" amongst front and rear tires more than the classics
2.The 1" taller (more compliment) sidewall on the19s do a much better job of camouflaging any (mis)alignment issues
3.Tesla has changed the alignment specs and does a much better job of insuring more accurate alignments

 

[mspohr]

Three reasons:
1.The D cars share the "work" amongst front and rear tires more than the classics
2.The 1" taller (more compliment) sidewall on the19s do a much better job of camouflaging any (mis)alignment issues
3.Tesla has changed the alignment specs and does a much better job of insuring more accurate alignments

Good to hear this... I'm happy with my car.

 

[Denarius]

Here is my alignment after my ludicrous upgrade:

 

[Cowby]

thought I'd share since I got so much from y'all! thanks to lolachamp et al for all their work!....so my setup is slightly different that I've not seen posted here:

• 22"....9" front, 10.5" rears
• upper aftermarket fixed length link install
• lowering links installed

hope this helps others!

 

[docgarner]

Upon doing research because my rear tires have wear on the inside I found this thread. Read all posts. I have concluded I need to have my rear toe checked. Many people posted the alignment specs as indicated in their owners manual. The current owners manual at 'My Tesla' does not have any specs. I had downloaded and saved the owners manual every time it changed upon taking delivery of my Model S. I have found that versions 5.9, 6.0, and 6.2 of the owners manual have the Alignment Specs. Starting with version 7.0 Tesla has removed the specs. I find that very interesting.

Would you please post the most recent version of the specs you've seen?

 

[docgarner]

View attachment 175817 Here is my alignment after my ludicrous upgrade:

Thanks so much for posting this!!!

 

[mesalum]

Would you please post the most recent version of the specs you've seen?

Here you go. This is from the 6.2 version of the owner's manual, page 153.

 

[wildtigg3r]

Bringing this thread back to life. Read through 80% of the posts in the thread. There are so many different alignment settings that I'm a bit confused.

To prevent extreme tire wear, what is the ideal alignment setting with 21" staggered wheels w/out the aftermarket links? Front and rear. I have a 2013 P85+ w/ air suspension.

Most of the shops I've contacted in San Diego would not touch Model S with air suspension (only coil suspension) when it comes to wheel alignment. I have to bring my car into the service center.

Thanks.

 

[rdr1rx]

My S70 RWD now has 16,100 miles on staggered ContiSilent 21s and coil suspension. Camber check a few months ago show the rears in spec at -1.1. Rear treadwear is even, air pressure is set to factory spec of 40 psi cold, and the rubber is worn halfway to the wearbars. I expect close to 30,000 miles out of the rear tires. I don't baby the car (I average 375 Wh/mi on my 60 miles/day work commute).

 

[zwede]

I have a P85+ w/ Michelin PS2 21's. My rear camber was -2.1 dgrs from the factory. I tweaked the rear air suspension travel sensors to make the computer think the car was a little lower than it was. This makes the computer raise the car 10 mm and rear camber decreased to -1.4 dgrs.

My wear is now even but I still only got 9K miles out of the rear PS2s. Next set will be PSS. Hope they last a little longer.