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Negative Camber in the Rear and Expensive Tires

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#81
lolachampcar said:
My bill for one offs went something like
$450 for the links
$80 for the bespoke bushing pressing tooling
$220 for the Tesla link that supplied the first two bushings
two hours of my time to swap them out (including press and install time for the bushings) and reset the toe to something that was good enough to get me to an alignment rack
$125 for a 4 wheel alignment
Click to expand...
Very nicely done.

Looking at the picture you supplied earlier of the offset of the new arm, do you think offset bushings could provide the same effect for less expense? A bushing designed like Tesla's has plenty of material available to drill off-center. Eyeballing it, one of them could provide approximately 1/2 the change you made, two would provide the full change.
 
#82
mfennell,
I looked at that but consider that the inner sleeve is captured by the mounting ears on either the upright on the outside or the sub-frame on the inside and that the angular motion of the suspension travel is take up by the rubber annulus and you will see there is a problem. An offset hole in the inner sleeve will have the sleeve moving in an arc within the bushing outer sleeve and thus will bind.

I wish it were not the case as it would have been dead easy to plug the existing inner sleeve hole and offset drill each end by 0.110" to achieve the same goal.
 
#85
I'm checking with a second water jet cutter to see if they can do the secondary mill work (two bushing holes and ride height sensor ball), have them anodized and provide them to interested parties. I'll let you know what I learn.

rcc,
I was once told even a blind chicken will find a piece of corn from time to time. I just got lucky in the right place at the right time with the right product and the right market. Better to be lucky than good :)

I've attached the finish machine drawing. The bushing radius' are +/- 0.001" and the part is cut from 6061-T6. PM me for the DXF if you want to use a local water jet shop.
 

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#86
Originally Posted by lolachampcar
I'm talking to some owners about getting them some links. I most certainly do not want to be in the link making and selling (for profit) business. I'm happy to help if I can but I like being retired.


Read every thread you have written regarding tire wear and neg camber.. BRILLIANT!!!
I also like being retired.:biggrin: ( fort laud ). Las Olas Blvd
I hope to meet up sometime in the future.
 
#87
Shakespear,
There is a camber balance problem across the car (front and rear) which is either an issue with Tire Kingdom's rack (unlikely) or a tilt in my MS' ride height (or something else I guess). Dania is going to throw my car up on their rack, verify the camber right to left and check the ride height. If you like, I can PM you with the day so you can take a lookiesee.
 
#88
lolachampcar said:
Shakespear,
There is a camber balance problem across the car (front and rear) which is either an issue with Tire Kingdom's rack (unlikely) or a tilt in my MS' ride height (or something else I guess). Dania is going to throw my car up on their rack, verify the camber right to left and check the ride height. If you like, I can PM you with the day so you can take a lookiesee.
Click to expand...



Wuld be up for that .....Great
 
#92
I noticed that one of my rears had a tad bit more wear on the inside shoulder than the other. I found the car had a bit of a "toe vector" when I went to the alignment rack and chalked it up to that. ("Having a Toe Vector" was the alignment guy's term for the rears not pointing exactly in line with the car. Apparently it causes the fronts to fight with the rears just a bit which can drive uneven rear wear when there is a lot of negative camber). To be clear, the alignment was within Tesla's specification; it was just that the rears were pointing SLIGHTLY to one side.
 
#93
Kaivball said:
So we are discussing giving up handling for better tire wear on a high performance car?

This reminds me of a discussion about hyper-miling in a Ferrari...
Click to expand...

no, camber doesn't equal performance....talking about old wives tale..
this is especially true on cars with unequal a-arm....POS BMW using strut need static camber for performance is not the same as S (with unequal a-arm).....
some also like less rear camber to help car rotate.
you need a tire pyrometer to determine optimal camber AND for your driving style AND tires you are running........so one camber may work for one person, and not the other.

I have 19" wheels on S04 tires (stock Goodyear were crap) and STD suspension. thought about getting it lowered. but from this thread, seem to be inviting more camber :(

Lolachampcar: great write up....thanks for all the info.
 
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#94
bellwilliam,
You're welcome.... I did a wire frame of the rear suspension to (1) check how much I needed to lengthen the uppers to reduce the camber and (2) check camber gain going from standard to low ride height (2" change) like the car does naturally going down the highway. The gain was remarkably little so you may very well be ok lowering it. I've added a link to the drawing below. It's crude but it did the trick in that the length I calculated turned out to be spot on.

http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/Rear Geometry Model.pdf
 
#96
gtimbers said:
bellwilliam,

Do you have any results regarding range loss due to the Bridgestone tires? You went from a mid-pack All Season to a really fine high performance tire.
Click to expand...

sorry no data yet....I drive like a yahoo anyway, you wouldn't want my range data :)
for some strange reason, I drive much faster with both Tesla and Volt. I know electricity is not free (especially in SOCAL !! some of you paying 4 cents / kwh is just sickening), but it feels like it as I am getting anywhere from 50mpg to 100mpg depending on where I charge my car......so I floor it everywhere knowing it costs very little. my lifetime average so far is over 400wh/mile

I do have a plan to buy some LRR tires and wheels when I take long trips....
 
#97
Babylonfive said:
Dang Zex, Joules only got 8k miles on a set of tires? :mad:
Click to expand...

I did autocross pretty hard and had plenty of the skittery 0-45 mph takeoffs 100's possible thousands of times!
expect 20K on a set of conti's if you drive moderately i would think.

I plan on trying out a set of staggered 20" wheels for thrashing I think, cheaper tires all around. just too much fun not to push the car
 
#98
Based on all the shenannigans observed & discussed in this thread I feared the worst when the day came to remove my snows: Bridgestone Blizzaks with 4500 miles on them from new, never rotated.

Right side: Fronts show 'no' wear, perfectly even: Jefferson's Monticello is sitting 'right on the ground'. Rears show 'no' wear on the inside tread, same as fronts. On the outside tread Monticello is sitting up just above its name so wear might be a bit more than 1/16 inch max. This is an ideal wear pattern from any point of view; sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

If I find any significant differences on the left side they will be reported here. References are to the US nickel (5 cent coin). 85kwh with OEM 19 inch rims, production date Dec 07.2012.
--
 
#99
wycolo said:
Based on all the shenannigans observed & discussed in this thread I feared the worst when the day came to remove my snows: Bridgestone Blizzaks with 4500 miles on them from new, never rotated.

Right side: Fronts show 'no' wear, perfectly even: Jefferson's Monticello is sitting 'right on the ground'. Rears show 'no' wear on the inside tread, same as fronts. On the outside tread Monticello is sitting up just above its name so wear might be a bit more than 1/16 inch max. This is an ideal wear pattern from any point of view; sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

If I find any significant differences on the left side they will be reported here. References are to the US nickel (5 cent coin). 85kwh with OEM 19 inch rims, production date Dec 07.2012.
--
Click to expand...

That is very nice to hear! However: You need to drive this baby harder man! :)
 
#100
Some progress
 

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