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NEM 2.0 vs NEMMT
- Thread starter Magiken
- Start date
What I've seen, the utility's trick has been to reduce the 'rate' converting some of it into NBCs.
If total rate is $0.10/kWh including $0.02/kWh NBCs, then your gen rate would actually be $0.08/kWh.
-$0.24 + $0.30 = $0.06 _vs_ -$0.16 + $0.30 = $0.14
GenSao
Member
Pretty sure I am going to muddy up the waters here.
I installed 2 PW's onto my existing solar system (that was on NEM 1.0 with PG&E). Once the interconnect agreement went through, I was transferred into a NEMMT account. The rate schedule indicates EVA/NEMMT. I did not install a separate meter. I am looking at the NEMMT bill and it is extremely complex and I can't make heads or tails of it. If anybody would like to take a look and help me decipher that would be awesome. Thanks.
The PG&E NEMMT billing with Powerwalls is truly ridiculous. Mine is more ridiculous because I'm also on the SVCE CCA. There is a "short form" black and white bill and a "long form" version. The short form doesn't say anything useful and the long form is overly complicated with every single item from the Unbundled Rates section of the tariff listed out individually in various tables. The bottom line is that you're still paying according to your base rate schedule and NEM tariff. Having Powerwalls doesn't change that, so I'm mystified why they can't use the normal billing system that generates the Blue bills.
If you want to PM me and send me your bill by e-mail, I can highlight the important parts, send it back to you and then discuss it with you.
I would love to see the results of this.
As an update, I'm leaning towards NEMMT and have a call in to PG&E to get the cost. -miimura: did you have to install an NGOM?
@Magiken - NEMMT doesn't necessarily refer to your situation. NEMMT is also used for a standard Powerwall install with solar. I have NEM 1.0 for my solar and 2 Powerwalls and was converted over to the NEMMT. I think for most of us posting here that's the case. I don't remember hearing anyone who was combining a NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0 system before your post.
This is correct. Everyone with Powerwalls in PG&E territory is pushed into NEMMT for some crazy reason. The bill calculation is supposed to be the same as before, but something about the Powerwalls pushes us out of the conventional billing system.
Adding NEM 2.0 generation to a NEM 1.0 system with separate metering is a completely different situation. I want to add more solar to my house and from what I have seen so far, I would just convert everything to NEM 2.0. The hassle is not worth it because it would be difficult if not impossible to have the separate meter and still have the new solar behind the Tesla Gateway to contribute to backup operation.
Ah, I didn't realize PG&E was forcing the 'battery only' folks as well. That's interesting and makes no sense.
In any event, we've called PG&E and they've given us a rough number of $800-$1000 per NGOM which leans me towards the split route. To give a final estimate, they need a study from Tesla which we are attempting to coordinate now.
@miimura - Tesla's never once mentioned any issue(s) with using a split NEM 1.0/2.0 system. I'll let you know if that changes.
In any event, we've called PG&E and they've given us a rough number of $800-$1000 per NGOM which leans me towards the split route. To give a final estimate, they need a study from Tesla which we are attempting to coordinate now.
@miimura - Tesla's never once mentioned any issue(s) with using a split NEM 1.0/2.0 system. I'll let you know if that changes.
If you're getting a Powerwall and additional solar, you need to make a point to clearly tell them you want a split NEM 1 and NEM 2 system with separate metering. I doubt they've ever done one.
Also, it would take 175,000 miles of EV charging (or other equivalent usage) from the grid to generate enough Non-Bypassable charges to pay for a $1,000 separate meter. Personally, I wouldn't do the separate meter.
Yes, I should have clarified. We're getting a second solar system and 2 Powerwalls. So, in theory, we'd have 25 panels on NEM 1.0 and 8 on NEM 2.0, should we go the split route.
Tesla are actually the ones who told us about the decision. That doesn't mean they've done that many, of course. On the contrary, it's increasingly clear, based on my research, that this is rare.
Tesla are actually the ones who told us about the decision. That doesn't mean they've done that many, of course. On the contrary, it's increasingly clear, based on my research, that this is rare.
I heard back from PG&E today. The answer was a bit surprising to me, so I'd be inclined to seek independent confirmation (e.g. reading the tariffs), but this is what I was told:
If you have an existing NEM 1.0 solar system and add enough new generation that you can't retain your NEM 1.0 status for the combined system, then you do have two choices: a combined system on a single meter, or adding a second meter just for the new generation. Regardless of that choice, all generation will be under NEM 2.0 going forward. The only difference is in how long you are guaranteed NEM 2.0 status, versus being forced onto some future NEM 3.0 or later.
With a single meter you are guaranteed NEM 2.0 status for the combined system for 20 years from the PTO of the original PV system. So you get less than 20 years of NEM 2.0 status on the new system. If you use two meters, then your new system gets the full 20 years of NEM 2.0 status and is supposed to stay on NEM 2.0 after the original system has lost NEM 2.0 status.
Of course, all this is subject is how the new tariffs will be written in the future, but that is the current intention.
Cheers, Wayne
Thanks Wayne. We're still doing the back and forth with Tesla/PG&E, but thus far no one's said that the original system can't stay on NEM 1.0. The debate has been around the costs of that option, which we're trying to get details on now. I'll continue to report back as we go.
In other good news, we finally got our main upgraded, so we're making some progress.
Fun update: Tesla is now stating that they don’t support a split system due to the costs and significant delays associated with the study (3 months). This is interesting because we still don’t have a straight answer on the costs. I’ve asked if they can run a simulated cost of our system on NEM 2.0 using prior usage. Will update when I get something but this is looking more and more like no one actually knows anything.
Unless I'm missing something, all you need to do to calculate the difference is to take the lesser of your gross import or export for the year and multiply it by the NBC value. For example, I exported 5.491 MWh last year. At an NBC rate of $.0211/kWh that is about $116 extra I would pay on NEM 2.0.
If you're a net exporter, I suspect the difference wouldn't matter since it would likely be absorbed in the minimum monthly charges anyway.
If you're a net exporter, I suspect the difference wouldn't matter since it would likely be absorbed in the minimum monthly charges anyway.
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