To be fair, getting shocked with 240v @ 50amps is more like an "I'm dead now" issue rather than "I just got shocked" issue.
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NEMA 14-50 adapter no longer included with vehicles
- Thread starter electricjed
- Start date
I'm not sure how an unqualified person installing a 14-50 is any different than an unqualified person installing a Wall Connector. Those 2 things are unrelated.
Also don't see how using the included UMC at 32 amps is a problem at all. Either it's safe to use for charging or it isn't. Obviously it has to be safe or it wouldn't be included with the car and the 14-50 adapter wouldn't be on the store. The only potentially unsafe scenario I can see is those that frequently unplug/replug the UMC which can cause an issue over time unless you have an industrial grade 14-50 receptable. That should be a non-issue for those that plug in once and never move it again. Or maybe if your connector is outside in the elements, but I think neither of those use cases are typical.
And either the ~33 mph charge rate is fast enough for your situation or it isn't. My feeling is it's by far fast enough for the average person that charges overnight. Wall Connectors are "nice to have" but expensive overkill for the typical use of ~40/miles per day. My average mileage is even less.
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I disagree with all of your points. The M in UMC is a capability, not a requirement. Tens of thousands of Tesla owners have kept the UMC plugged in and hanging on the wall since Gen 1 came out in 2012, just unplugging and taking it with them on long trips. Tesla promoted that use from the beginning and there is no reason to change now. They’re not trying to get an extra $35 for the adapter, they’re trying to sell more HPWCs to new customers who aren’t aware that the UMC and 14-50 outlet is an equally good and less expensive solution for most people with garages.
steve1313
Member
IMO the HPWC is the best solution for home charging. Mine cost about $1200 installed (including the HPWC), or about 1% the cost of my Model X. Even if you buy a base Model 3, it's still only around 3% of the vehicle cost. Why wouldn't you want to make that small additional investment for the easiest, best home charging solution? Plus it looks cool on my garage wall!!
Who said anything about unqualified?
Qualified electricians should NOT be installing 14-50 outlets for Tesla's. They should be installing Wall Connectors.
The UMC is really for being used in a pinch and should be kept with the car.
The UMC is limited to 32A (Model 3).
Paying for 14-50 wiring and running at 32A is dumb.
Installing a 14-50 outlet without a GFCI (as many do and have) is dumb.
A wall connector solves all the issues and will leave the customer with the best, safest, most flexible and most efficient solution.
And the incremental cost will be peanuts.
Including the 14-50 adapter with the car has led a lot of customers down a dumb path.
Because some people don’t care about how cool it looks and have other uses for the $500. “Easiest” and “best” are debatable. You’re entitled to your opinion that it’s best but Tesla shouldn’t be pushing clueless new owners in that direction over a simpler, less expensive solution. I’ve been perfectly happy using a UMC hanging on the wall and plugged into to a 14-50 outlet for my two Teslas since 2013.IMO the HPWC is the best solution for home charging. Mine cost about $1200 installed (including the HPWC), or about 1% the cost of my Model X. Even if you buy a base Model 3, it's still only around 3% of the vehicle cost. Why wouldn't you want to make that small additional investment for the easiest, best home charging solution? Plus it looks cool on my garage wall!!
Not according to Tesla. You seem to be rewriting history. When I bought my Model S in 2013, both a 14-50 outlet and HPWC were presented as equally valid home charging solutions. Why do you think all Tesla stores have 14-50 outlets on the display wall? In fact, the purchase of HPWC was discouraged as an unnecessary expense unless we ordered a car with “dual chargers” that was an option on the early Model S, because it wouldn’t charge a car with the single 40A charger any faster than the UMC plugged into 14-50 outlet would.
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ucmndd
Well-Known Member
IMO the HPWC is the best solution for home charging. Mine cost about $1200 installed (including the HPWC), or about 1% the cost of my Model X. Even if you buy a base Model 3, it's still only around 3% of the vehicle cost. Why wouldn't you want to make that small additional investment for the easiest, best home charging solution? Plus it looks cool on my garage wall!!
There is nothing “easier” about the HPWC. Nor “better” in my case. In fact I’d argue the 14-50 has been far “better” as it’s allowed a couple non-Tesla EV owning friends to charge at my house.
I’m glad $1200 was worth it to you to make your garage look cool, you’re surely not alone. But let’s not make it into something it’s not.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
What exactly is “most flexible” about a hardwired solution that works for Tesla vehicles only?
As for efficiency, do you really think the HPWC is meaningfully more efficient than the UMC? Enough to make up the cost difference over the lifetime of the car? Come on.
The difference isn't $500 and you paid for 14-50 wiring but your not getting
Yes. UMC is limited to 32A for Model 3.
Wall Connector is flexible in that you can install it initially for what ever amps are available and then upgrade your panel later and then adjust it.
You can set it up for charging multiple cars.
It has GFCI built in eliminating the need to have it on your 14-50 outlet.
The only place it makes sense to have 14-50 is if you plan to have a non Tesla EV share it. Other than that a wall connector is the optimal solution for most new customers.
Wall Connector is also better suited for outdoor applications.
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
Tesla is steering the customer towards an ideal solution.
1. You will be surprised how little Tesla owners are not up-to-date. (E.g. half owners did not know about the AP/EAP sale last month). The owner opens the supplied EV charging and sees a NEMA 14-50. Next thing, finds a contractor to install and is adamant about it (disregarding load calculation, permits, and alternative solutions like the HPWC). Electrician and handyman’s pressured to do what the customer says. Basically customer decides on the point solution.
2. The NEMA 14-50 isn’t the only game in town. Often touted as the gold standard, visiting the Clipper Creek website for my previous wall mounted EVSE reveals there are a multitude of plugs available. I ended up buying a plug-in unit. Return policy ends and I realize too late that a hardwired connection (akin to a HPWC installed per the instructions!) rules supreme.
3. The NEMA 14-50 has its installation woes. Consider this plug is out in the open and not tucked behind a 100 lb. electric dryer or electric range. I used a GFCI circuit breaker. I have small kids I can’t always monitor. I also used a in-use receptacle cover and zipped tied it closed! The most difficult part was getting receptacle into a 2 gang box with #6 wire. There’s a neutral needed for NEMA 14-50 where HPWC neutral isn’t not needed). Money saved! (Less GFCI, less receptacle, less in-use cover (modified), and less wire).
4. I ended up adding a HPWC via Tesla. They did an excellent no compromise job. 100A and smiling. Permit was $200 and was included in cost. I thought it was a deal after costing out all the parts and time savings. The HPWC can be dialed in at 5A increments. The mobile connector needs an adapter to dial it down. Reducing charge via the car’s software can not be relied on.
1. You will be surprised how little Tesla owners are not up-to-date. (E.g. half owners did not know about the AP/EAP sale last month). The owner opens the supplied EV charging and sees a NEMA 14-50. Next thing, finds a contractor to install and is adamant about it (disregarding load calculation, permits, and alternative solutions like the HPWC). Electrician and handyman’s pressured to do what the customer says. Basically customer decides on the point solution.
2. The NEMA 14-50 isn’t the only game in town. Often touted as the gold standard, visiting the Clipper Creek website for my previous wall mounted EVSE reveals there are a multitude of plugs available. I ended up buying a plug-in unit. Return policy ends and I realize too late that a hardwired connection (akin to a HPWC installed per the instructions!) rules supreme.
3. The NEMA 14-50 has its installation woes. Consider this plug is out in the open and not tucked behind a 100 lb. electric dryer or electric range. I used a GFCI circuit breaker. I have small kids I can’t always monitor. I also used a in-use receptacle cover and zipped tied it closed! The most difficult part was getting receptacle into a 2 gang box with #6 wire. There’s a neutral needed for NEMA 14-50 where HPWC neutral isn’t not needed). Money saved! (Less GFCI, less receptacle, less in-use cover (modified), and less wire).
4. I ended up adding a HPWC via Tesla. They did an excellent no compromise job. 100A and smiling. Permit was $200 and was included in cost. I thought it was a deal after costing out all the parts and time savings. The HPWC can be dialed in at 5A increments. The mobile connector needs an adapter to dial it down. Reducing charge via the car’s software can not be relied on.
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What’s your point? Any Tesla bought in 2019 will charge overnight when plugged into a 14-50 outlet, even at only 32A. If someone wants faster charging, then sure, buy a Wall Connector and install it on a higher amp circuit.
Or the inverse, they know the majority of people are using the cord and they figure they can make $500 more with every purchase because they will always mention and recommend the wall charger and conveniently leave out the fact that you can just buy a $35 adapter.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
How do you calculate the difference between “free” UMC and $500 HPWC?
Fast =/= efficient
I have a 40 amp UMC that I almost always use at 32A. I have zero need for faster charging.
This example is akin to buying a car that doesn’t fit in your garage in the interest of being “flexible” should you ever decide to rebuild your garage.
Interesting fact, the UMC also has GFCI.
Again, define better. The UMC is fully weather sealed. I’ve ran 23MWh through mine in 2.5 years outdoors.
Because you referenced recommendations you had in 2013.
Today, it’s dumb to install a 14-50 outlet.
Of course it will work and you might save a few bucks. But that doesn’t make it a smart choice.
LOL at everyone thinking this isn't a money grab, what's Telsa supposed to sell this year, 250K vehicles? 250k x $35 is 8.75 million, hardly pocket change, especially for a company that's been in the red most of its life. If they're all pushed towards wall chargers at $500 a pop that's $125 million. What's tesla supposed to sell in future years, 400-500K vehicles that's $250million, get out of here thinking it's not a money grab to create new revenue.
Why is it not a smart choice, what is so dumb about a 14-50?
Dr. J
Active Member
Not as in: I can charge with at home, and then toss it in the frunk so I can charge on the road. That would be the UMC, and that *is* flexible.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
I find the 6-50 worked for me. Not dumb at all if you might want to weld some day.
Less wires than 14-50, easy to get into a 33 cu inch "old work" box. Added utility grade outlet and brought my 20 YO panel up to code with GFIC breakers in the garage.
I never run more than 28A, 20 miles an hour is plenty. Derating gives me confidence to use a 50 amp welding extension cord to position the Tesla in the safer part of the garage. Did the work myself and saved a bundle. Biggest cost was a gen 2 connector that stays plugged in as I wanted my Gen 1 to stay in the car and also as a backup.
Charging efficiency is 90%+
Less wires than 14-50, easy to get into a 33 cu inch "old work" box. Added utility grade outlet and brought my 20 YO panel up to code with GFIC breakers in the garage.
I never run more than 28A, 20 miles an hour is plenty. Derating gives me confidence to use a 50 amp welding extension cord to position the Tesla in the safer part of the garage. Did the work myself and saved a bundle. Biggest cost was a gen 2 connector that stays plugged in as I wanted my Gen 1 to stay in the car and also as a backup.
Charging efficiency is 90%+
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