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Nema 14-50 install location/garage

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,270
7,322
Boise, ID
Definitely not opposed to it, just need to see if they will escalate the charges to install it that way.
🤨 I still don't get it. Yes, it will increase the cost of the install, but you were considering spending hundreds of dollars on extra charging devices with longer cords or extension cords just to deal with not having the outlet in the proper place. I would think it would cost the same or less and also be more convenient to just put the outlet where it's supposed to be. If they're already having to go as far as bringing the line in from a different floor to get it onto your garage wall, that is most of the work already. Running some extra conduit along the walls of the garage to get it on the best side of the room isn't going to be much more relative to that.
 

1plavs

3/29, VIN 188***, LR, White, Inductions, black int
Mar 29, 2021
350
124
MKE
🤨 I still don't get it. Yes, it will increase the cost of the install, but you were considering spending hundreds of dollars on extra charging devices with longer cords or extension cords just to deal with not having the outlet in the proper place. I would think it would cost the same or less and also be more convenient to just put the outlet where it's supposed to be. If they're already having to go as far as bringing the line in from a different floor to get it onto your garage wall, that is most of the work already. Running some extra conduit along the walls of the garage to get it on the best side of the room isn't going to be much more relative to that.
#1 rain, snow, sleet ...will easily hit the outlet since it’s closer to the garage door. I don’t want that unless we can add a waterproof cover. Then I’m all for it.
#2 complications with wiring or farther out and city codes that may change things.
#3 future homeowner may not like the location.
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
1) If the 14-50 receptacle is installed inside the garage (not recommending 1ft from the garage door. 3 to 4 ft back from garage the door should be fine.) There is little chance of rain being an issue, especially if the receptacle is mounted high up (4 ft.)

2) The city inspector will probably inspect both ends of the circuit. The inspector can also ask to inspect any part of the wire run. The length of the wire does not matter as long as the proper gauge wire is used.

3) Not an issue. The new owner may be thrilled that there is a 14-50 receptacle for charging an EV. If the new owner has a Tesla they are all set. If they ever purchase another brand of EV they will have an EVSE with a 25 ft charging cord so all will be good.
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
So I should aim to install the receptacle 4 ft from ground and 4 ft from garage door?
What is your garage layout and charging plan? In 1plvs garage it appears that there is already a 120V receptacle mounted near the garage door at 4ft height. In some locations the local code specifies that an electrical switch or receptacle be mounted at least 4 ft above the garage floor. This is to ensure that any arcing or sparks created at the electrical junction does not ignite any gasoline fumes that may be circulating around closer to the garage floor.
 

Fakedevil

Member
Mar 24, 2021
137
31
Seattle
What is your garage layout and charging plan? In 1plvs garage it appears that there is already a 120V receptacle mounted near the garage door at 4ft height. In some locations the local code specifies that an electrical switch or receptacle be mounted at least 4 ft above the garage floor. This is to ensure that any arcing or sparks created at the electrical junction does not ignite any gasoline fumes that may be circulating around closer to the garage floor.

Hmm it is just a 2 car garage?
I have a cable panel near the electrical panel. I have a 120V receptacle further inside of the garage and nothing near the garage door.
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
Hmm it is just a 2 car garage?
I have a cable panel near the electrical panel. I have a 120V receptacle further inside of the garage and nothing near the garage door.
If you plan to charge a Tesla vehicle at home the charging port on all current Tesla vehicles is located on the left side, rear quarter panel just before the tail light. The current Tesla charging equipment includes the Gen 2 Mobile Connector (up to 32A) that comes with the vehicle, the Gen 3 Wall Connector (up to 48A) and there is also a corded Mobile Connector (this one has a fixed NEMA 14-50 plug, enables charging at up to 40A.) The charging cord on each of these Tesla units is 18 feet long. That means that you have to be able to reach the Tesla's charging port from where the 14-50 receptacle is installed or where you install the Gen3 Wall Connector. (The older Gen 2 Wall Connector had a 24 foot long charging cord.) In my experience to be able to have adequate reach from most parts of the garage a charging cord should be 24 or 25 feet in length.

Since the Tesla charging cord is much shorter you have to be certain that the charging cord can reach the charging port when planning the location of the charging circuit electrical outlet (I.e. NEMA 14-50R) or junction box (Wall Connector). Otherwise the only way you will be able to reach the charging port may be to back the Tesla vehicle into the garage. (This is not an issue for most non-Tesla EV and plug-in hybrid vehicles as the charging port is usually located just in front of the driver's door on the front left fender. There are a few plug-in hybrid vehicles where the charging port is located on the right rear quarter panel.)
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
2,826
2,398
VB
That is why I asked if there was a GFCI circuit breaker in the quote. If WI has adopted the 2017 version of the NEC then per the 2017 revision to the NEC there is a requirement for all 14-50 circuits to have a GFCI when used for EV charging. This requires a GFCI circuit breaker that costs about $100 compared to the $10 or so that a standard 50A double pole circuit breaker costs.
Most city building codes don’t run on the latest code and some are several cycles back.
 

1plavs

3/29, VIN 188***, LR, White, Inductions, black int
Mar 29, 2021
350
124
MKE
1) If the 14-50 receptacle is installed inside the garage (not recommending 1ft from the garage door. 3 to 4 ft back from garage the door should be fine.) There is little chance of rain being an issue, especially if the receptacle is mounted high up (4 ft.)

2) The city inspector will probably inspect both ends of the circuit. The inspector can also ask to inspect any part of the wire run. The length of the wire does not matter as long as the proper gauge wire is used.

3) Not an issue. The new owner may be thrilled that there is a 14-50 receptacle for charging an EV. If the new owner has a Tesla they are all set. If they ever purchase another brand of EV they will have an EVSE with a 25 ft charging cord so all will be good.
1) If the 14-50 receptacle is installed inside the garage (not recommending 1ft from the garage door. 3 to 4 ft back from garage the door should be fine.) There is little chance of rain being an issue, especially if the receptacle is mounted high up (4 ft.)

2) The city inspector will probably inspect both ends of the circuit. The inspector can also ask to inspect any part of the wire run. The length of the wire does not matter as long as the proper gauge wire is used.

3) Not an issue. The new owner may be thrilled that there is a 14-50 receptacle for charging an EV. If the new owner has a Tesla they are all set. If they ever purchase another brand of EV they will have an EVSE with a 25 ft charging cord so all will be good.
Would you know starting from the 14-50 plug all the way down to the chassis how many feet or inches that equalls?

Today my electrician confirmed that they can in fact install 2 feet off of the ground.
 

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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
Would you know starting from the 14-50 plug all the way down to the chassis how many feet or inches that equalls?

Today my electrician confirmed that they can in fact install 2 feet off of the ground.
I measured my Mobile Connector w/14-50 plug adapter installed. The length is 15.25 inches to the top of the molded plug.

I stretched out the Mobile Connector charging cord on the floor laid against a 25' tape measure. I measured 18 ft 8 inches (the charging cord still had a few slight bends and was not perfectly straight.)

The electronics unit is not square, it tapers towards the back side. At the front the length is 7-3/16". The length of the charging connector at the end of the charging cord is 8" (The 18' 8" does not include the connector.)

The NEMA 14-50 plug adapter (the part of the plug adapter that extends outside of the Mobile Connector chassis when installed in the Mobile Connector is 8-1/8"long.
 
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1plavs

3/29, VIN 188***, LR, White, Inductions, black int
Mar 29, 2021
350
124
MKE
I measured my Mobile Connector w/14-50 plug adapter installed. The length is 15.25 inches to the top of the molded plug.

I stretched out the Mobile Connector charging cord on the floor laid against a 25' tape measure. I measured 18 ft 8 inches (the charging cord still had a few slight bends and was not perfectly straight.)

The electronics unit is not square, it tapers towards the back side. At the front the length is 7-3/16". The length of the charging connector at the end of the charging cord is 8" (The 18' 8" does not include the connector.)

The NEMA 14-50 plug adapter (the part of the plug adapter that extends outside of the Mobile Connector chassis when installed in the Mobile Connector is 8-1/8"long.
So that’s from the top of the molded plug to the bottom of the chassis correct?

I just may be in luck, but when they arrive on 5/3 I’ll have a much better idea. Hey thx!
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
So that’s from the top of the molded plug to the bottom of the chassis correct?

I just may be in luck, but when they arrive on 5/3 I’ll have a much better idea. Hey thx!
Also, the distance from the Model Y charging port (the actual port not the port cover) to the garage floor measured 40.5"

With the receptacle mounted at 24" and the 15" length of the plug and the chassis that leaves 9" to the floor. Estimate 1ft from the plug to the floor and 4 ft from the floor to the charging port is 5ft. 18 ft 8 inches - 5 ft = 13 ft 8 inches. That is how much charging cord you would actually have.
 
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1plavs

3/29, VIN 188***, LR, White, Inductions, black int
Mar 29, 2021
350
124
MKE
Also, the distance from the Model Y charging port (the actual port not the port cover) to the garage floor measured 40.5"
Ok, but is the 15.25 inches is from the top of the molded plug to the bottom of the chassis correct?
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
Ok, but is the 15.25 inches is from the top of the molded plug to the bottom of the chassis correct?
Yes, with the 14-50 plug inserted into the Mobile Connector chassis the total length I measured was 15.25"

Looking back at my earlier post, the distance from the front of Model Y to the charging port is 15' 7". If you park within 12" of the garage back wall the charging cable (13" 8" available length) will be approximately 3 feet too short. The minimum total length of the charging cord would need to be at least 22 ft.

Since you have stated you don't want to back the Model Y into the garage to charge that leaves just these options:

A) Install the 14-50 receptacle at a different location so the Mobile Connector charging cord can reach the charging port.
B) Use a non-Tesla EVSE, one with a charging cord 24 ft. or 25 ft long would definitely reach the Tesla's charging port.
C) See options A, B.
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,163
2,137
Maryland
Tesla's description of the Mobile Connector states that the Mobile Connector Main Unit comes with a 20ft charging cord. This is accurate if you count the length of the Mobile Connector chassis (7-3/16") and charging cord (18' 8") plus the length of the charging connector (8") but not the length of the plug adapter (8-1/8").
 
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MFTMFW

New Member
Apr 1, 2021
2
0
Michigan
A few current benefits, some future benefits.

Current benefits:

1) No plug, cleaner install that is fully sealed for use indoors or outdoors in all weather conditions.
2) Can use 2 wires instead of requiring 3 wires, plus ground wire so you would save 1/3rd the cost per foot for the wire run.
3) No separate GFCI required on the circuit if the Wall Connector is hard wired as intended. Since the National Electrical Code (NEC) was updated in 2017 new 14-50 receptacles require a GFCI circuit breaker when used for EV charging. These cost approx. $100 US.
4) Can be configured on a 60A circuit. When installed on a 60A circuit the Wall Connector enables charging at up to 48A. Else if installed on a 50A circuit the Wall Connector would enable charging at up to 40A. (The Tesla Mobile Connector is limited to 32A whether installed on a 40A or a 50A circuit. The corded Mobile Connector has a fixed 14-50 plug and supports charging at up to 40A.)
5) As a permanently installed EVSE as opposed to one that plugs in the Wall Connector qualifies for a US federal tax credit of up to $1000 or 30% of the cost of installing the circuit and charging equipment in a home. (See IRS form 8911.)

Future benefits:
1) Load sharing so two or more Wall Connectors will be able to be installed on a single circuit. (This will require as yet unreleased Tesla firmware update for the Wall Connector.)
2) Tesla has indicated that the Wall Connector could support direct billing (Again, this would require Tesla to release a firmware update for the Wall Connector and would require an internet connection and WiFi. This is most applicable to commercial installations such as a B&B, hotel or parking garage.

Limitations:
1) The charging cord is only 18 ft long. For maximum utility, IMHO, an EVSE charging cord should be 24/25 ft.
2) Firmware updates require an internet connection and WiFi (Note: WiFi/internet access is not required for initial configuration, only over the air updates.)
3) The face plate of the Wall Connector is made of glass. Seriously, who else but an EV company that sells vehicles with a glass roof would do this? Meanwhile, in another dimension, a major EVSE manufacturer has a video that demonstrates that the aircraft grade plastic used in their EVSE housings is so tough you can hit it with a wooden bat. (In the video the wooden bat actually splintered when used to bash the EVSE housing while the EVSE remained undamaged!)
Thanks for the info! Just had the WC installed this morning and happy to be getting 41 mph charge :)
 

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1plavs

3/29, VIN 188***, LR, White, Inductions, black int
Mar 29, 2021
350
124
MKE
Yes, with the 14-50 plug inserted into the Mobile Connector chassis the total length I measured was 15.25"

Looking back at my earlier post, the distance from the front of Model Y to the charging port is 15' 7". If you park within 12" of the garage back wall the charging cable (13" 8" available length) will be approximately 3 feet too short. The minimum total length of the charging cord would need to be at least 22 ft.

Since you have stated you don't want to back the Model Y into the garage to charge that leaves just these options:

A) Install the 14-50 receptacle at a different location so the Mobile Connector charging cord can reach the charging port.
B) Use a non-Tesla EVSE, one with a charging cord 24 ft. or 25 ft long would definitely reach the Tesla's charging port.
C) See options A, B.
Is the adapter for NEMA 14-50 outlets included with the MY?
 
Mar 8, 2021
73
70
Las Cruces, NM
A few current benefits, some future benefits.

Current benefits:

1) No plug, cleaner install that is fully sealed for use indoors or outdoors in all weather conditions.
2) Can use 2 wires instead of requiring 3 wires, plus ground wire so you would save 1/3rd the cost per foot for the wire run.
3) No separate GFCI required on the circuit if the Wall Connector is hard wired as intended. Since the National Electrical Code (NEC) was updated in 2017 new 14-50 receptacles require a GFCI circuit breaker when used for EV charging. These cost approx. $100 US.
4) Can be configured on a 60A circuit. When installed on a 60A circuit the Wall Connector enables charging at up to 48A. Else if installed on a 50A circuit the Wall Connector would enable charging at up to 40A. (The Tesla Mobile Connector is limited to 32A whether installed on a 40A or a 50A circuit. The corded Mobile Connector has a fixed 14-50 plug and supports charging at up to 40A.)
5) As a permanently installed EVSE as opposed to one that plugs in the Wall Connector qualifies for a US federal tax credit of up to $1000 or 30% of the cost of installing the circuit and charging equipment in a home. (See IRS form 8911.)

Future benefits:
1) Load sharing so two or more Wall Connectors will be able to be installed on a single circuit. (This will require as yet unreleased Tesla firmware update for the Wall Connector.)
2) Tesla has indicated that the Wall Connector could support direct billing (Again, this would require Tesla to release a firmware update for the Wall Connector and would require an internet connection and WiFi. This is most applicable to commercial installations such as a B&B, hotel or parking garage.

Limitations:
1) The charging cord is only 18 ft long. For maximum utility, IMHO, an EVSE charging cord should be 24/25 ft.
2) Firmware updates require an internet connection and WiFi (Note: WiFi/internet access is not required for initial configuration, only over the air updates.)
3) The face plate of the Wall Connector is made of glass. Seriously, who else but an EV company that sells vehicles with a glass roof would do this? Meanwhile, in another dimension, a major EVSE manufacturer has a video that demonstrates that the aircraft grade plastic used in their EVSE housings is so tough you can hit it with a wooden bat. (In the video the wooden bat actually splintered when used to bash the EVSE housing while the EVSE remained undamaged!)

I've been debating which way to go if/when I get a new Tesla. But between the tax credit, clean finished look of the WC and not needing to install a $100 GFCI breaker I'm leaning toward the WC even though it is a little more money.
 

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