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NEMA 14-50 plug or wall charger?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by eddieb3, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

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    Here we go:

    The Wall Connector (HPWC) is actually made by (or at least this is who shows up in the UL database under the # posted on my Wall Connector):

    DELTA ELECTRONICS INC, FFWA.E354307 - UL Product Spec

    DELTA ELECTRONICS INC E354307
    39 SEC 2 HUANDONG RD
    SHANHUA DISTRICT
    TAINAN, 741 TAIWAN

    Welcome to Delta Group
     
  2. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

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    Interesting! Your part number seems to be: EVWTS40PL and mine is EVWTS80HL So I am going to make the obvious guess that the 40 is for 40a and the 80 is for 80a. PL = Plug and HL = Hard wire?

    Maybe they decided they could not sell it due to the 12" cord requirement in 2017 NEC?

    I have no friggin clue! But it would be nice if it was an option on the market! Some folks may want it!

    Here is mine as a comparison:
    IMG_4397.JPG
     
    • Informative x 2
  3. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    When I ordered them for my office on ebay I was expecting HW 80A HPWC. Definitely surprised when I opened the box and found a 14-50 hanging off it. I almost sent them back but then I found out about Teslas workplace charging program and got 4 HPWC donated by Tesla... so I had 8 HPWC laying around for a while.

    Glad I hung on to them. Gave one to a friend as a house warming gift and one to my Mom. The thinner cable wraps around the unit much easier than the heavier cable. Since most cars can only charge at ~48A or less a lower powered HPWC does make sense. As near as I can tell the internals are identical to the 80A version, far more rugged than the UMC. There's a very satisfying 'thunk' when the car starts charging.
     
  4. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

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    If the fuse box is in the garage and you have to run across the garage you are looking at maybe $30 difference in wire cost, another $30 difference for the bigger breaker, maybe a conduit upsize, but you save the cost of the outlet, yes there are $8 ones but outdoor units are $30-50 and the good Hubbell plug that handles constantly plugging and unplugging well is $70.
    You also future proofed and have saved your UMC as backup even if it is backup on a 110volt circuit that is better than no backup.
     
  5. ChrisMPK

    ChrisMPK Member

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    No one has yet mentioned here the the HPWC is way cooler and more legit looking than the 14-50 connector. That was a major factor in my decision to run a new 60A feed to a HPWC in my garage. If cost was the driving factor you probably should have bought a Kia.
     
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  6. azentropy

    azentropy Member

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    Same here. I’m guessing they couldn’t make them at a price point that made sense. They still sell the older mobile connector with a corded 14-50 for $520 that does 40A... Model S/X Corded Mobile Connector

    But I’d go for the 40A HPWC if it was the same price as it looks cooler and had built in cable management.
     
  7. smsiegel33

    smsiegel33 Member

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    Has anyone run greater than 6/3?
     
  8. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    For a plug? No. For a HPWC? You need #3 if you want ~80A.
     
  9. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

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    So I was curious and I contacted Tesla charging support to find out about these units. Here was their answer:

    "Those units were shipped accidentally and were never supposed to be released to the public. They are not for sale and in most cases we have attempted to recover the unit and give customers the Wall Connector we currently sell on the website"

    So if you wanted one of the full 80a versions it looks like they would swap it out for you. ;-)
     
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  10. Dana1

    Dana1 Supporting Member

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    +1 HPWC
     
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  11. pandam3

    pandam3 Member

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    I’ve got the same delema as well... stick with the UMC vs get the first gen UMC that goes to 40 amps vs get an HPWC.

    I just upgraded my main panel from the old 100 amp panel from the 60’s to to a new 200 amp panel outside in the original spot + a 100 amp sub panel in the garage split to dual nema 14-50’s on either side of the garage. On one side I have a Bosch Powermax 30amp (that is meant to be hardwired) installed with a 14-50 connector I bought on amazon that I used to charge my previous EV. On the other side I have my UMC plugged in and mounted into a wall bracket giving me 32 amps. On either plug I can charge my model 3 to full charge in one evening for weekend use if needed otherwise I top off 50 miles m-f while keeping charge between 50 and 70%. Socal Edison super off peak starts at 10pm so my charging starts at 10pm.

    I’m thinking of getting an HPWC and installing a 14-50 cord on it and setting it to 40 amps so I can use my UMC at work to get an additional 25 miles of charge. As well as sell off my Bosch Power Max.
     
  12. 1.21GW

    1.21GW Member

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    I ran 4/3 for my HPWC
     
  13. rdlink

    rdlink Member

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    I ran 4/3 for my HPWC. 60 amp breaker.
     
  14. NickFie

    NickFie Member

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    Happens more often than you think.

    We’ve come back from a trip with 6% - 20% left, with another journey planned for the next day. Or dinner the same day at a moderately distant location. Even if Philadelphia weren’t a SuperCharger desert, it would be inconvenient to detour to one.

    Engineer’s experience is that you rarely say, “Should have bought a smaller...”
     
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  15. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    Yep; Faster charging adds A LOT of flexibility...
     
  16. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

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    Can you post pictures of this subpanel (preferably with the cover off if you are comfortable doing that safely?) I am curious how many spots you have available and what ampacity wire was used for the feeder and 14-50's.

    Basically, I think I would without question install a Wall Connector off that subpanel. I actually would probably do the following:

    I would leave the existing two 14-50's and then I would add an additional circuit for the HPWC. If the run was not very long from the panel, I would actually probably do it with 3 AWG copper wire in conduit capable of 100a and I would put it on a 100a breaker. Then to deal with the load calculations I would set the rotary dial on the HPWC down to 48a. I would use the "non coincident" loads clause to say that one of those 14-50's will NEVER be used at the same time as the HPWC. That gives you (48 + 30) * 1.25 = 97.5 amps on that subpanel.

    Or you could just wire up the HPWC with 6awg in conduit and a 60a breaker. Or next wire size up if you wanted to use NM cable. This would let you charge the Model 3 at the full 48 amps (80% of 60a).

    One advantage of running 3 AWG wire on a 100a breaker is that if you later got a Model S or X or something but for whatever reason did not have a second electric car, you could just crank up the amps on the dial in the HPWC.
     
  17. jboy210

    jboy210 Supporting Member

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    Cool looks count. That is why I have not bought a regular HPWC. Waiting for the Elon Signature model I got for giving a Model X/S owner a lifetime Supercharging reference.
     
  18. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    Alright besides the fact its not called a HPWC anymore but "wall connector"

    Very rarely will anyone need the extra charge rate 48A provides over 32A, unless you make several hundred mile trips a day and only have a limited time to charge at home.

    I drive maybe 100 miles a day tops and charge overnight. Doesn't take the full night to recoup what i've used. Maybe 3-4 hours tops.

    The extra 20 minutes i'd save going a full 48A is not worth the extra cost.

    Now if you wanna get a wall connector for convenience, that's a good reason to get one. But don't get one simply for the higher charge speed.
     
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  19. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

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    You are making an assumption about people’s use cases in this statement. Yes, most people most of the time won’t need particularly fast charge speeds in order to regenerate overnight, but there are those exception cases. For some, they are willing to spend a good amount of money to cover those edge cases and not be inconvenienced. For some, the peace of mind is worth it even if never used.

    I for one have had two situations so far in just a month where the 48a charger was a benefit. Both were Friday’s where I drove to work, came home, and then wanted to top off the car before a weekend trip. Faster is better in this case and I was willing to pay for it. My electrical service could handle it, and so the delta cost in parts was probably $50 since I was buying a HPWC anyway.

    I think in these forums we need to recognize that everyone has different use cases and tolerances for slow charging and levels of cost sensitivity. I just dropped $56k on a car. A couple hundred extra bucks is a drop on the bucket...
     
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  20. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    Oh i have a wall connector myself, i just wanted to assure some people who would think that the wall connector is a must-have instead of a convenience. And just look at the paint cost thread, a lot of people get upset at the cost of having to pay $500.
     
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