NEMA 14-50 with 120v

[liuping]

Thank you
Good option as well
Close to $400 for upconversion and extra 4 amps
I'm not sure if it's worth it

Your could try a less expensive transformer like these LiteFuze LT-5000 for around $199: LiteFuze New LT Series Voltage Transformer Converter With convertingbox Technology - YouTube
(5000 w Watts Step Up Down Voltage Converter Transformer | eBay )

I would think a 5kW transformer should be good for 3.3kW continuous. which is greater than 2.4kW for 20A at 120v, but not quite as much as 3.6kW for 30A at 120v

 

[Otmar]

=I would think a 5kW transformer should be good for 3.3kW continuous. which is greater than 2.4kW for 20A at 120v, but not quite as much as 3.6kW for 30A at 120v

In my experience this sort of transformer is worse than useless for EV charging, only good for a small percentage of the "rating". I once used a similar one to charge a 120V EV off an old AVCON in the 1990's and even after adding a fan it overheated. If it's made in China I would start by assuming that the rating is intermittent, not continuous as needed for EV charging.

I still wonder how much current the car would draw if you powered the mobile connector with the 14-50 off a 110V...

Oops, My curiosity was too much and my panel is not far away. I had to test it!

When I wire my 14-50 with 120 V on the hot terminals the wrong way, the Mobile connector goes red.
When I swap the "hot" leads it charges fine. But it only draws 20A charge rate even though the in car display shows 40A available. I can adjust the rate, and below 20A it limits, but the current drawn limits at 20A even when I set the desired limit to 40A.
It shows 2kW at 124V, or 6 mi/hr on charge the display. I only have a single charger in case that makes any difference.

I agree that a quality step up transformer like the Outback could be used to charge at higher rates, but of course with a 50A 120V circuit and other loads you'll need to be careful and limit the current drawn since a 20A load on the 240V side could draw a bit over 40A on the 120V side depending on the transformer taps used.

 

[AndreyATC]

Otmar
Thank you for the test!
20A is software-limited i guess
Can you show me how you wired 14-50 to 120v?
It would be nice to install outdoor 14-50
I may need to explain my electrician how to wire 240v 14-50 to be 120v

 

[islandbayy]

Otmar
Thank you for the test!
20A is software-limited i guess
Can you show me how you wired 14-50 to 120v?
It would be nice to install outdoor 14-50
I may need to explain my electrician how to wire 240v 14-50 to be 120v

Actually rather easy, The 14–50 adapter, has two hots, a neutral, and a ground. to wire it for 120 V, put one hot to one hot on the outlet, then, and neutral to the other hot on the outlet. connect the neutral and ground pins as normal, done.

 

[AndreyATC]

Your could try a less expensive transformer like these LiteFuze LT-5000 for around $199: LiteFuze New LT Series Voltage Transformer Converter With convertingbox Technology - YouTube
(5000 w Watts Step Up Down Voltage Converter Transformer | eBay )

I would think a 5kW transformer should be good for 3.3kW continuous. which is greater than 2.4kW for 20A at 120v, but not quite as much as 3.6kW for 30A at 120v

I'm trying to avoid having another "moving" part, especially in outdoor weather

- - - Updated - - -

Actually rather easy, The 14–50 adapter, has two hots, a neutral, and a ground. to wire it for 120 V, put one hot to one hot on the outlet, then, and neutral to the other hot on the outlet. connect the neutral and ground pins as normal, done.

Does it matter which of the two hots gets neutral and which gets hot from 120 wire?

 

[Cottonwood]

Actually rather easy, The 14–50 adapter, has two hots, a neutral, and a ground. to wire it for 120 V, put one hot to one hot on the outlet, then, and neutral to the other hot on the outlet. connect the neutral and ground pins as normal, done.

This is safe, but non-standard. If a later user tries to plug in an RV (not unusual at a vacation home), then half of their 120V circuits will have no power.

If I were doing this, I would put in a TT-30, the standard 120V, 30A RV outlet and get an EV-only TT-30 to 14-50 adapter. This was described at NEMA 14-50 with 120v - Page 2. The TT-30 to 14-50 is only $44, and the permanent install is all standard, up to code, etc.

BTW, in five years of driving Teslas, I have only encountered having a TT-30 as the only alternative twice, but in those cases, 6 mph would have been better than 3 mph. I just ordered one of the TT-30 to 14-50 adapters to go in my road trip kit.

 

[bluetinc]

Does it matter which of the two hots gets neutral and which gets hot from 120 wire?

Yes, but if you get it wrong the light on the car will just turn red when it runs the (if 120V, check Neutral potential = 0V) verification. You want the line voltage to show up on the same pin into the UMC as when the regular 120V adapter us used.

Peter

 

[Otmar]

Otmar
Thank you for the test!
20A is software-limited i guess
Can you show me how you wired 14-50 to 120v?
It would be nice to install outdoor 14-50
I may need to explain my electrician how to wire 240v 14-50 to be 120v

You are most welcome.

It seems my testing was not original (no surprise). Here I've found a more complete document.

I agree with Cottonwood that the TT-30 is probably the best outlet for you to install unless you want to push it with a transformer. I would then get or make make a custom adaptor as shown in the above pdf.
That way you have a standard NEC legal installation that won't confuse anyone along the way. In general, I like to keep all non-standard and/or unsafe modifications well labeled and removeable.

 

[AndreyATC]

Thank you everyone for all you feedback and ideas
I'm happy to be part of Tesla and this bright community.
I will do the TT-30, as it seems to be the best option for my situation
After all, I'm looking to add some milage so I can get back home (100mile) when I arrive there with less than half battery charge
6-7 mph rate should be enough for overnight charging, even when it's bellow freezing

These 2 i will need, right?
Amazon.com: Conntek 14370 RV Pigtail Adapter RV 30 Amp Male Plug To RV 50 Amp Female Connector: Patio, Lawn Garden
Leviton 7313 30 Amp, 125 Volt, NEMA Tt-30R, 2P, 3W, Flush Mounting Receptacle, Straight Blade, Industrial Grade, Grounding, For Recreational Vehicles, Side Wired, Steel Strap, Black - Amazon.com

 

[Otmar]

Thank you everyone for all you feedback and ideas
These 2 i will need, right?
Amazon.com: Conntek 14370 RV Pigtail Adapter RV 30 Amp Male Plug To RV 50 Amp Female Connector: Patio, Lawn Garden
Leviton 7313 30 Amp, 125 Volt, NEMA Tt-30R, 2P, 3W, Flush Mounting Receptacle, Straight Blade, Industrial Grade, Grounding, For Recreational Vehicles, Side Wired, Steel Strap, Black - Amazon.com

Your listed Adaptor won't work. You need a Tesla specific device like on this page:
http://evseadapters.com/adapters-for-tesla-model-s.php

 

[AndreyATC]

This one?

I wanted more of a wire vs. this bulky thing

 

[Otmar]

This one?
View attachment 43264
I wanted more of a wire vs. this bulky thing

Yes, that one. You can also make your own as described in the pdf that I posted earlier. Maybe that was your goal with the dongle from Amazon?

 

[dadaleus]

Just contact EVSEadapters. They will probably make it however you want. They made me a 100' 10-30 to 14-50 cable (before Tesla's 10-30 adapter was out) to charge at my parents house which has a very awkward electrical setup. They're great at custom stuff.

 

[Cottonwood]

Your listed Adaptor won't work. You need a Tesla specific device like on this page:
http://evseadapters.com/adapters-for-tesla-model-s.php

Exactly!

Most RV adapters will provide 120V between each Line connection and Neutral, but Zero Volts between the two Line connection. The Tesla wants to see 120V between the two Line connections, which is what the Tesla specific adapter will do. However, using the Tesla specific adapter for an RV will provide Zero Volts to one of the Lines, and not power half of the connections in the RV.

- - - Updated - - -

This one?
View attachment 43264
I wanted more of a wire vs. this bulky thing

Yes, that one. Its not so bulky when you compare it to the TT-30 plug, a short wire, and a 14-50 receptacle.

 

[AndreyATC]

Thank you
I just didnt want this to fall out of the receptacle when plugged it
This, plus UMC with adapter = lots of weight and sticking far out

 

[efxjim]

Screw a bike hook in next to the charger, cheap protection.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Thank you
I just didnt want this to fall out of the receptacle when plugged it
This, plus UMC with adapter = lots of weight and sticking far out

Install the TT-30 receptacle closer to the ground, that way the heavy UMC can sit on the ground. Alternatively, build your own TT-30 to NEMA 14-50 adapter from the instructions given in the PDF posted above and that way you won't have a long chain of plugs sticking out from the receptacle.

Btw, you might not have enough capacity to have your car charging and your hot tub heating at the same time, you might have to switch off the hot tub when the car is charging.

 

[AndreyATC]

Install the TT-30 receptacle closer to the ground, that way the heavy UMC can sit on the ground. Alternatively, build your own TT-30 to NEMA 14-50 adapter from the instructions given in the PDF posted above and that way you won't have a long chain of plugs sticking out from the receptacle.

Btw, you might not have enough capacity to have your car charging and your hot tub heating at the same time, you might have to switch off the hot tub when the car is charging.

I learned to manage 50A when i'm there
I became pretty good not exceeding the limit
Hottub is only 1KW, which is surprisingly low for 20-jet 5-seater tub
My main problem is usually with electric water heater which draws 2kw, you never know when it kicks in


On the side note,
I have a few solar panels there and i can add few more
Is there a way to charge MS with DC current or with inverter directly to car?

 

[Cottonwood]

On the side note,
I have a few solar panels there and i can add few more
Is there a way to charge MS with DC current or with inverter directly to car?

Usually the easiest and cheapest solution is a grid-tied inverter. There are a few 120V grid-tie Solar PV Inverters out there.

One problem to be careful of is that code only allows you to feed a circuit breaker panel with 110% of the panel rating when you are feeding it with grid and solar. If your panel is rated at more than 50A, you are in pretty good shape. If it is only a 50A panel, then the most that you can add is a 5A breaker (10% over the 50A). If you have a 70A or 100A panel, or you upgrade to one, you should not have a problem.

 

[Cosmacelf]

On the side note,
I have a few solar panels there and i can add few more
Is there a way to charge MS with DC current or with inverter directly to car?

Afaik, there is no way to charge a Model S with DC. The upcoming CHAdeMO adapter would accept DC, but there are no inexpensive CHAdeMO charging stations and the protocol is complex and proprietary for DIY.