NEMA 14-60 plug on a HPWC?

[ryanjeffords]

I have a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage that I use for changing my car AND running my brewing equipment. I recently ordered a Tesla HPWC and obviously want to get the most I can from it, but that would require upgrading my circuit to 60 amps. I verified that the wire is 4 awg, so I should be safe.

The question is, aside from the 14-50 being a common outlet for ranges, is there any reason why I couldn't slap a 60 amp breaker in and switch out the plug to a NEMA 14-60 so I can retain the dual use of the outlet?

I've seen several people add NEMA 14-50 plugs to their HPWC but haven't heard of a single person adding a 14-60 plug.

 

[GtiMart]

The HPWC doesn't use a socket, it is directly wired.

 

[ATPMSD]

If you are constantly plugging and unplugging your existing 14-50 outlet, you already have a problem. 240V outlets are not intended for that kind of usage.

If you were to install a 14-60 outlet, then you would of course need to change the plug on your brewing equipment and determine if you can safely run it on a 60-amp circuit

As noted my @GtiMart, the Gen 3 Tesla Wall Connector (TWC not HPWC) is a direct wire system. So what can you do?

Given the wiring size you stated, it seems reasonable that you could upgrade to a 60-amp circuit and then run it to a A/B switch box. Hardwire the TWC to one side and a 14-60 outlet (and not the 14-50) to the other. In this way you can select which one, and only one, device to get power with the added benefit that you can leave your brewing equipments plugged in. When you buy the 14-60 outlet don’t get a cheap one. 240V at 60A is a lot of power.

If you find putting your brewing equipment on a 60A circuit unwise, just keep the 50-amp breaker and plug you have, but still use an A/B switch and configure the TWC to 50A.

Or…

Run a 60-amp circuit from your breaker to a sub-panel. Run a 60-amp circuit to the TWC and a 50-amp circuit to the brewing equipment. However, in this case you must be careful not to run both at the same time.

 

[ryanjeffords]

The HPWC doesn't use a socket, it is directly wired.

I know. But I also know you can wire a plug pretty easily.

 

[ATPMSD]

One more issue to consider, according to code, all outlets in a garage are to be protect by a GFIC breaker or outlet, however, the TWC states it is not to be on a GFIC circuit! So here is how you can keep it to code.

Use a standard 60-amp breaker and run the circuit to an A/B box
Connect the TWC to one side of the box and the other to a sub-panel
In the sub-panel, use a GFIC breaker for your outlet.

And, assuming your brewing system really only needs 120V, you can use the correct outlet and breaker, and a 120V GFIC breaker is a lot cheaper than the 240V version.

 

[ryanjeffords]

If you are constantly plugging and unplugging your existing 14-50 outlet, you already have a problem. 240V outlets are not intended for that kind of usage.

If you were to install a 14-60 outlet, then you would of course need to change the plug on your brewing equipment and determine if you can safely run it on a 60-amp circuit

As noted my @GtiMart, the Gen 3 Tesla Wall Connector (TWC not HPWC) is a direct wire system. So what can you do?

Given the wiring size you stated, it seems reasonable that you could upgrade to a 60-amp circuit and then run it to a A/B switch box. Hardwire the TWC to one side and a 14-60 outlet (and not the 14-50) to the other. In this way you can select which one, and only one, device to get power with the added benefit that you can leave your brewing equipments plugged in. When you buy the 14-60 outlet don’t get a cheap one. 240V at 60A is a lot of power.

If you find putting your brewing equipment on a 60A circuit unwise, just keep the 50-amp breaker and plug you have, but still use an A/B switch and configure the TWC to 50A.

Or…

Run a 60-amp circuit from your breaker to a sub-panel. Run a 60-amp circuit to the TWC and a 50-amp circuit to the brewing equipment. However, in this case you must be careful not to run both at the same time.

I only brew a few times per year. This would be no different than how often I plug/unplug my mobile charger.

Interesting idea about the A/B switch... I actually have a A/B switch on the brewery controller that I use but it's only supporting <30amps of current.

I like the idea, but looking at the price... I'm thinking it's probably safe to just keep with what I have and charge at 40amps. I wish I had another slot open on my panel so I can add another 60amp breaker and hardwire the Tesla HPWC, but...it is what it is.

 

[ryanjeffords]

One more issue to consider, according to code, all outlets in a garage are to be protect by a GFIC breaker or outlet, however, the TWC states it is not to be on a GFIC circuit! So here is how you can keep it to code.

Use a standard 60-amp breaker and run the circuit to an A/B box
Connect the TWC to one side of the box and the other to a sub-panel
In the sub-panel, use a GFIC breaker for your outlet.

And, assuming your brewing system really only needs 120V, you can use the correct outlet and breaker, and a 120V GFIC breaker is a lot cheaper than the 240V version.

Interesting complication...

My brewing rig is actually a 240V 30amp system. It has an integrated 30amp breaker and plugs into my existing 50amp circuit. ...but all that aside...

The 50amp breaker in my main panel is GFCI (because of the brewery). I know the HPWC has built in GFCI functionality, but... I just assumed there's no harm in daisy chaining GFCI functionality. I need to look into this... I might just have to replace the 50 amp GFCI breaker with a regular one...

 

[ATPMSD]

I wish I had another slot open on my panel

Just in case, you do know about tandem breakers, right? They allow you to have two breakers in one slot. Example:

Square D Homeline 2-20 Amp Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker HOMT2020CP - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker consists of (2) single-pole, 20 Amp breakers in 1 pole space. It is used for overload and short-circuit protection of your

www.homedepot.com

 

[ryanjeffords]

Just in case, you do know about tandem breakers, right? They allow you to have two breakers in one slot. Example:

Square D Homeline 2-20 Amp Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker HOMT2020CP - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker consists of (2) single-pole, 20 Amp breakers in 1 pole space. It is used for overload and short-circuit protection of your

www.homedepot.com

I do not...until now. Oh my gosh.

This is brilliant... and could allow me to retain a 50 amp for my existing plug and then run a 60amp hardwire for the HPWC. The question is, do the tandems comes in 50 and 60 amp variety? I only see them in 15 and 20 amp.

 

[ATPMSD]

I do not...until now. Oh my gosh.

This is brilliant... and could allow me to retain a 50 amp for my existing plug and then run a 60amp hardwire for the HPWC. The question is, do the tandems comes in 50 and 60 amp variety? I only see them in 15 and 20 amp.

Wrong approach. Find four 20-amp breakers side by side, then use two tandem breakers to consolidate, which opens up two slots. Now you can add a 240V dual-pole breaker of whatever size and type you want.

 

[Sophias_dad]

There is absolutely no need to run an hpwc at 60 amps. It can be set as low as 15.

Additionally, I don't know of any tandem breakers that are GFCI, but that's not a real big deal.

TBH, unless more speed is needed, just using the umc is usually fine.

 

[ryanjeffords]

Wrong approach. Find four 20-amp breakers side by side, then use two tandem breakers to consolidate, which opens up two slots. Now you can add a 240V dual-pole breaker of whatever size and type you want.

Right. I thought of that after I posted. The problem is, my 50 amp circuit is on my main panel... they're all "big" circuits.

1. 60 amp Furnace
2. 35 amp AC
3. 50 amp Range
4. 60 amp Interior subpanel
5. 30 amp Dryer
6. 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet

Obviously I can't do anything with the interior panel since it's max'd at 60 amps already.

I probably should just deal with the 50amp outlet and stop worrying about it.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Right. I thought of that after I posted. The problem is, my 50 amp circuit is on my main panel... they're all "big" circuits.

1. 60 amp Furnace
2. 35 amp AC
3. 50 amp Range
4. 60 amp Interior subpanel
5. 30 amp Dryer
6. 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet

Obviously I can't do anything with the interior panel since it's max'd at 60 amps already.

I probably should just deal with the 50amp outlet and stop worrying about it.

Just so you know, there are tandem 240v breakers as well, so you could take a 30amp 240v breaker and put in a 30 AND 50 240v breaker in the same space.

 

[ryanjeffords]

Just so you know, there are tandem 240v breakers as well, so you could take a 30amp 240v breaker and put in a 30 AND 50 240v breaker in the same space.

Something like this?

Square D Homeline 1-30 Amp 2-Pole, 1-50 Amp 2-Pole Quad Tandem Circuit Breaker HOMT230250CP - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline Quad-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker consists of (1) double-pole 30 Amp and (1) double-pole 50 Amp breakers. These innovative circuit breakers help free valuable

www.homedepot.com

I guess I could take that run my dryer (30 amp) and wall outlet (50 amp) on that and then that will free up a slot to run a fresh 60 amp circuit...

 

[Sophias_dad]

Something like this?

Square D Homeline 1-30 Amp 2-Pole, 1-50 Amp 2-Pole Quad Tandem Circuit Breaker HOMT230250CP - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline Quad-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker consists of (1) double-pole 30 Amp and (1) double-pole 50 Amp breakers. These innovative circuit breakers help free valuable

www.homedepot.com

I guess I could take that run my dryer (30 amp) and wall outlet (50 amp) on that and then that will free up a slot to run a fresh 60 amp circuit...

Yes, but why are you hooked on the 60amp circuit? Do you really need 43mi/hr, or is it just a desire for the max?

 

[ATPMSD]

I guess I could take that run my dryer (30 amp) and wall outlet (50 amp) on that and then that will free up a slot to run a fresh 60 amp circuit

May I suggest the 30-amp dryer and 50-amp range so you can leave the 50-amp 14-50 outlet on the GFIC breaker, which is required by code?

 

[ryanjeffords]

Yes, but why are you hooked on the 60amp circuit? Do you really need 43mi/hr, or is it just a desire for the max?

2 reasons:

1. I already have a 50 amp circuit I can run my HPWC from.
2. If I'm going to run another circuit, I might as well max it out.

May I suggest the 30-amp dryer and 50-amp range so you can leave the 50-amp 14-50 outlet on the GFIC breaker, which is required by code?

Is it code though? When I built the house in 2009, it didn't have a GFCI breaker. I added that when I started brewing with the outlet (for safety). The outlet is inside (the garage).

The next challenge... finding a tandem Square D QO type breaker in the config I need. Seems most are HOMELINE type which won't fit my panel. I'll keep looking...

 

[ATPMSD]

Is it code though?

Yes, the code was revised a number of years ago. In truth, I do not believe it is retroactive so you should not need to put one in as long as you do not make changes. But didn't you say your 50-amp circuit already has a GFIC breaker? Removing it may well be a code violation, but I am not an electrician so I'll stop there.

 

[ryanjeffords]

Yes, the code was revised a number of years ago. In truth, I do not believe it is retroactive so you should not need to put one in as long as you do not make changes. But didn't you say your 50-amp circuit already has a GFIC breaker? Removing it may well be a code violation, but I am not an electrician so I'll stop there.

Yeah, I added the GFCI breaker myself a few years back. I plan to keep it there unless I have to remove it ...depending on how I decide to install my HPWC.

I appreciate all the help you've been...given me a lot to think about. I think (at least initially) I'm just going to wire the NEMA 14-50 plug and use my existing outlet.

 

[ngng]

If you are constantly plugging and unplugging your existing 14-50 outlet, you already have a problem. 240V outlets are not intended for that kind of usage.

Can you elaborate on this?