nema 6-50, 14-50

[davidlee]

I had an electrician give me a quote to add an outdoor nema outlet. I'm about to buy an ev charger and been having difficulty reaching the electrician to ask him a question. I would appreciate if anyone can give me a hand. I have a unused 240V in my electrical panel. Would the electrician have any issue using that to a nema 6-50 or 14-50? Is there anything they need to know about my panel before I buy the ev charger?

I'm buying an ev charger from my electric company. They offer one model with a 6-50 and another model with the 14-50. I'm looking to buy asap but can't reach the electrician to ask this question.

just a fyi. my house was built in the 50s and most of of the electrical outlets in my home, and the lighting wiring do not have a ground connection. Not sure of this will help determine which nema outlet I can install.


thanks!

 

[mattw715]

I dont think you can go wrong with the 14-50. I think it is the most common and more modern outlet.

 

[jcanoe]

Do not purchase any electric vehicle service equipment (EVSE) until you have spoken with, obtained quotes from two or more licensed electricians. All EVSE require a proper earth ground connection. If you are planning to install an EVSE outdoors, where it will be exposed to rain/sleet/snow/ice it needs to be all-weather rated (either NEMA Level 3 or Level 4.) If the EVSE will be installed outdoors it really should be hard wired so that there is no receptacle or plug where water can get in and corrode the connection. The receptacles you noted (NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 6-50 are intended for use on a dedicated 240V/50 amp circuit. If your current electrical service does not have the capacity for an additional 50 amp circuit you may be able to add a 30 amp circuit or a 20 amp circuit. Determine how many miles per day you typically drive will help you to confirm whether you need higher amperage circuit. It makes no difference to the EV; the only difference is how many hours per day it will take to recharge the battery so that tomorrow you can again start out with an 80% battery charge (80% is just a suggestion but it is the typical recommended maximum battery charge for daily use.)

 

[gaswalla]

as above, don't but an EVSE / EV charger.
If you want, you can get the Tesla HPWC.
I would just get the 6-50 installed and plug in the UMC for now until you know what you need after you get the car. (6-50 install cheaper than a 14-50 install)

 

[Akikiki]

If you own or are about to purchase a Tesla, why are you buying a separate EV charger? All you need is electricity be it 120V or 240V (6-50 or 14-50).

 

[NJEV-Don]

If you own or are about to purchase a Tesla, why are you buying a separate EV charger? All you need is electricity be it 120V or 240V (6-50 or 14-50).

I agree. The cheapest option is to get a 240V NEMA 14-50 outdoor rated outlet installed by a licensed electrician. It has to have a weather proof cover. Then spend $35 to get the Tesla 14-50 adapter for use with the Mobile Connector included with all new Tesla’s. This will charge at 32 amps on a dedicated 50A circuit because that’s the most the Mobile Connector can charge at. It will give you about 29-30. miles of range per hour which isn’t bad. The only issue with this is that you would have to constantly get the cable from your car or leave it plugged in and have nothing in your car in case of emergencies. A second Mobile Connector is $275. This is basically what I do but I have an indoor 14-50 outlet in the garage. There are other options but they would be more expensive for equipment and require more electrical work which is also more money. Hope this helped.

 

[davidlee]

thanks for all the help!
im getting a seperate ev charger as it has the ability to set charging times and there's an offer from my electric company to pay me to use it off peak hours.


so from what im gathering, if im installing outside, go with a hardwired install as opposed to an outlet? i was thinking outlet since it would be easier for me to replace the charger hardware if there were any issues.


also, if i go with the 50 amp, i can set the model y to charge lower correct? im happy with the charging rate of 32amp.

also my initial question, there should be no issue to install either a 6-50 or 14-50 due to any possible limitations of my electrical box? my main concern was that since the outlets in my home dont have ground, how would they add ground for the new ev charger?

 

[NJEV-Don]

thanks for all the help!
im getting a seperate ev charger as it has the ability to set charging times and there's an offer from my electric company to pay me to use it off peak hours.


so from what im gathering, if im installing outside, go with a hardwired install as opposed to an outlet? i was thinking outlet since it would be easier for me to replace the charger hardware if there were any issues.


also, if i go with the 50 amp, i can set the model y to charge lower correct? im happy with the charging rate of 32amp.

also my initial question, there should be no issue to install either a 6-50 or 14-50 due to any possible limitations of my electrical box? my main concern was that since the outlets in my home dont have ground, how would they add ground for the new ev charger?

If I’m not mistaken you might be able to charge at 40A on a dedicated 50A circuit if your EVSE can do it. The MY can actually charge up to a max of 48A if it’s on a 60A circuit. I think the ChargePoint HomeFlex is a great choice. I have that at my primary residence in NJ. It’s hardwired outside and on a dedicated 50A circuit. You can do it with a plug in as well but I think it’s safer doing hardwired if you’re installing it outside, it’s rated for outside and allows you to set up schedules, set the charge rate, connected to WiFi and ties into your electric provider and gives you loads of information as far as cost and efficiency. It’s been rated very highly by loads of websites and reviewers . You just need to use the Tesla included J1772 adapter. It’s also tied into the ChargePoint ecosystem in those instances when you’re not near a Tesla supercharger. It’s on the expensive side at $700. You order it online from ChargePoint or Amazon with either 6-50 or 14-50 plugs and then the electrician can easily disconnect the plug (it’s meant to be easy) and hardwire it if you want. Let your electrician tell you what he thinks is safest for your situation. I do agree it is easier if you ever had to swap out the EVSE to have it plugged in.

 

[Akikiki]

thanks for all the help!
im getting a seperate ev charger as it has the ability to set charging times and there's an offer from my electric company to pay me to use it off peak hours.

You do know, that your Tesla will allow you to select the time to start charging? You don't need to depend on some other hardware for that. Tesla's have done that since 2012.

Are you sure? Your utility may be allowing cheaper charging at certain times offpeak or TOU time of use. It may not have anything to do with buying hardware. Think about it for a minute. Do you think they would only offer the "pay me to use off peak" because of the hardware purchase AND not offer the same offpeak rate to EV owners charging their cars - also offpeak?

They may be explaining off peak, but not only with hardware purchase. Sometimes we hear something and don't fully comprehend what we are hearing simply because we are not familiar with that terminology - it simple goes over our heads the first time we hear or read it. It takes some getting used to or hearing someone else explain it to "get it".

Please don't expect or please don't depend on anyone here to validate for you if 6-50 or 14-50 is a good choice for your situation. Mostly because no one here can see your box, your home, your service. You need an expert in your locality to advise you. Not someone here. Besides what if you did rely on someone for advice and later turned out wrong and caused you an expense?

 

[jcanoe]

thanks for all the help!
im getting a seperate ev charger as it has the ability to set charging times and there's an offer from my electric company to pay me to use it off peak hours.


so from what im gathering, if im installing outside, go with a hardwired install as opposed to an outlet? i was thinking outlet since it would be easier for me to replace the charger hardware if there were any issues.


also, if i go with the 50 amp, i can set the model y to charge lower correct? im happy with the charging rate of 32amp.

also my initial question, there should be no issue to install either a 6-50 or 14-50 due to any possible limitations of my electrical box? my main concern was that since the outlets in my home dont have ground, how would they add ground for the new ev charger?

Correct; if this will be an outdoor installation then hardwired is the way to go. A 14-50 plug is only use for indoors (inside a garage is considered indoors, or for temporary use outdoors, i.e. for an RV motorhome.) For permanent installation outdoors you need to hardwire.

You only need 2 wire + ground, that will save a little money over 3-wire + ground.The cost of a junction box with a service disconnect (if required by code for the circuit you plan to install) is probably a wash with the cost of a quality 14-50 or 6-50 receptacle. The service disconnect is a grey box with a pull down handle (it is basically an On/Off switch for the electrical equipment. The service disconnect is there to protect a technician while they are working on the electrical equipment.) If you have an AC compressor outside your home it will be wired to a service disconnect, from there to the Service Panel in your home. The ground wire should be run back to the service panel where it will connect to the earth ground for the house. For charging at 32 amps you would need a 40 amp circuit.

If the EVSE requires a 50 amp circuit it may be able to set to operate on a circuit with a lower amperage rating but not always. Consult the owner's manual of the equipment offered by the Electric Utility. That is the case with the Gen3 Tesla Wall Connector. The Wall Connector is all-weather rated, meant to be hard wired. The Wall Connector can be installed on a 60 amp circuit but it can also be setup for use on lower amperage circuits. The limitation of the Wall Connector, in my opinion, for charging Tesla vehicles is that the charging cord is limited to 18 ft. That may not be long enough to reach the charging port on the Tesla (the charging port is located just above the driver's side rear tail light.)

 

[davidlee]

You do know, that your Tesla will allow you to select the time to start charging? You don't need to depend on some other hardware for that. Tesla's have done that since 2012.

Are you sure? Your utility may be allowing cheaper charging at certain times offpeak or TOU time of use. It may not have anything to do with buying hardware. Think about it for a minute. Do you think they would only offer the "pay me to use off peak" because of the hardware purchase AND not offer the same offpeak rate to EV owners charging their cars - also offpeak?

They may be explaining off peak, but not only with hardware purchase. Sometimes we hear something and don't fully comprehend what we are hearing simply because we are not familiar with that terminology - it simple goes over our heads the first time we hear or read it. It takes some getting used to or hearing someone else explain it to "get it".

Please don't expect or please don't depend on anyone here to validate for you if 6-50 or 14-50 is a good choice for your situation. Mostly because no one here can see your box, your home, your service. You need an expert in your locality to advise you. Not someone here. Besides what if you did rely on someone for advice and later turned out wrong and caused you an expense?

I did know tesla cars allow programmable charging times. i did not receive my Y yet. do they allow you to program start/stop times?. if they do, i would probably just go with the tesla home charger.

also the program that im referring where they will give you a small % back for charging off peak hours is related to the hardware you use.
its only a 2 year program.
Smart Charge Rewards - PSEG Long Island

 

[davidlee]

Correct; if this will be an outdoor installation then hardwired is the way to go. A 14-50 plug is only use for indoors (inside a garage is considered indoors, or for temporary use outdoors, i.e. for an RV motorhome.) For permanent installation outdoors you need to hardwire.

You only need 2 wire + ground, that will save a little money over 3-wire + ground.The cost of a junction box with a service disconnect (if required by code for the circuit you plan to install) is probably a wash with the cost of a quality 14-50 or 6-50 receptacle. The service disconnect is a grey box with a pull down handle (it is basically an On/Off switch for the electrical equipment. The service disconnect is there to protect a technician while they are working on the electrical equipment.) If you have an AC compressor outside your home it will be wired to a service disconnect, from there to the Service Panel in your home. The ground wire should be run back to the service panel where it will connect to the earth ground for the house. For charging at 32 amps you would need a 40 amp circuit.

If the EVSE requires a 50 amp circuit it may be able to set to operate on a circuit with a lower amperage rating but not always. Consult the owner's manual of the equipment offered by the Electric Utility. That is the case with the Gen3 Tesla Wall Connector. The Wall Connector is all-weather rated, meant to be hard wired. The Wall Connector can be installed on a 60 amp circuit but it can also be setup for use on lower amperage circuits. The limitation of the Wall Connector, in my opinion, for charging Tesla vehicles is that the charging cord is limited to 18 ft. That may not be long enough to reach the charging port on the Tesla (the charging port is located just above the driver's side rear tail light.)

good info thanks..
i also read that you can set the tesla car to charge at a certain amperage? is that correct?
I also have a service disconnect for my solar panel box outside.

im still going to get through to the electrician to ask all these questions but it will have to wait till monday. I'm just getting a little anxious and trying to get some more insight here. haha

 

[Akikiki]

Insight? Try this for help. Tesla Model 3/Y Home Charging Guide – TeslaTap

 

[jcanoe]

good info thanks..
i also read that you can set the tesla car to charge at a certain amperage? is that correct?
I also have a service disconnect for my solar panel box outside.

im still going to get through to the electrician to ask all these questions but it will have to wait till monday. I'm just getting a little anxious and trying to get some more insight here. haha

Yes, Tesla vehicles (including the Model Y) enable you to be able set the maximum charging amperage from the charging menu. Unless you are having difficulty charging, i.e the circuit breaker for the outlet you are using keeps tripping off there is no need to set the charging amperage. Normally the Tesla vehicle and the EVSE establish the voltage (120V or 240) and the maximum charging amperage that can be supported automatically within the first 30 seconds of plugging in the vehicle.

I suggest writing down your questions for the electrician. The more you know the better informed you will be when making any purchase as relates to charging your Model Y at home.

Every new Tesla vehicle comes with a Tesla Mobile Connector (Tesla's portable EVSE.) The Mobile Connector may be all you need to get started charging your Tesla at home. The Mobile Connector comes with a NEMA 5-15 power plug adapter that will plug into any standard outlet. You can purchase additional power plug adapters for the Mobile Connector from the Tesla Store. The total length of the power plug adapter, Mobile Connector unit and the charging cord is ~20ft. It may be too short to reach your vehicle unless you use an extension cord. Tesla does not recommend using an extension cord with the Mobile Connector. For short term use, if nothing else will do, people do use quality extension cords with the Mobile Connector. The extension cord should be as short as possible, 10 or 12 gauge with a proper ground plug and receptacle. You would need to keep the extension cord connection dry (there are interconnect covers sold for this purpose.) You should also keep the Mobile Connector off the ground, dry. When plugged into a receptacle the Mobile Connector electronics unit should be supported, not left to hang from the power plug. If you plan to use an existing 120V receptacle (either 15 amp or 20 amp) if it is more than 5 years old replace it before you start charging. Old, corroded worn out receptacles should be replaced before you attempt to charge an EV from that outlet. Replace with a contractor grade or a hospital grade receptacle. The receptacles displayed loose in bins by the big box stores are suitable for plugging in a table lamp, spend a few $ for a quality receptacle. You may only need to use the Mobile Connector to charge your vehicle at 120V for a short time, until the electrician can schedule and complete the work once you decide on your long term charging setup. The Mobile Connector is not all-weather rated, continued exposure of the Mobile Connector to rain and dampness will shorten the life of the Mobile Connector.

 

[jstjohnz]

The fact that you were regular receptacles do not have a ground does not have anything To do with the ability to install a grounded receptacle for charging. There is definitely a ground at your main electrical panel. The real question is whether there is sufficient extra capacity in your electrical service. A house built in the 50s likely has 100 amp service, and you may not have 50 A available to dedicate to EV charging. Only an electrician can answer that question for you.

 

[davidlee]

The fact that you were regular receptacles do not have a ground does not have anything To do with the ability to install a grounded receptacle for charging. There is definitely a ground at your main electrical panel. The real question is whether there is sufficient extra capacity in your electrical service. A house built in the 50s likely has 100 amp service, and you may not have 50 A available to dedicate to EV charging. Only an electrician can answer that question for you.

right, the capacity of the electrical box is 100amp. the only other appliance that draws a considerable amount is the central AC unit. for this reason, I will only be charging at night and setting the amperage from the car to 32amp or less.

and thanks for addressing the grounding question i had.

 

[davidlee]

Yes, Tesla vehicles (including the Model Y) enable you to be able set the maximum charging amperage from the charging menu. Unless you are having difficulty charging, i.e the circuit breaker for the outlet you are using keeps tripping off there is no need to set the charging amperage. Normally the Tesla vehicle and the EVSE establish the voltage (120V or 240) and the maximum charging amperage that can be supported automatically within the first 30 seconds of plugging in the vehicle.

I suggest writing down your questions for the electrician. The more you know the better informed you will be when making any purchase as relates to charging your Model Y at home.

Every new Tesla vehicle comes with a Tesla Mobile Connector (Tesla's portable EVSE.) The Mobile Connector may be all you need to get started charging your Tesla at home. The Mobile Connector comes with a NEMA 5-15 power plug adapter that will plug into any standard outlet. You can purchase additional power plug adapters for the Mobile Connector from the Tesla Store. The total length of the power plug adapter, Mobile Connector unit and the charging cord is ~20ft. It may be too short to reach your vehicle unless you use an extension cord. Tesla does not recommend using an extension cord with the Mobile Connector. For short term use, if nothing else will do, people do use quality extension cords with the Mobile Connector. The extension cord should be as short as possible, 10 or 12 gauge with a proper ground plug and receptacle. You would need to keep the extension cord connection dry (there are interconnect covers sold for this purpose.) You should also keep the Mobile Connector off the ground, dry. When plugged into a receptacle the Mobile Connector electronics unit should be supported, not left to hang from the power plug. If you plan to use an existing 120V receptacle (either 15 amp or 20 amp) if it is more than 5 years old replace it before you start charging. Old, corroded worn out receptacles should be replaced before you attempt to charge an EV from that outlet. Replace with a contractor grade or a hospital grade receptacle. The receptacles displayed loose in bins by the big box stores are suitable for plugging in a table lamp, spend a few $ for a quality receptacle. You may only need to use the Mobile Connector to charge your vehicle at 120V for a short time, until the electrician can schedule and complete the work once you decide on your long term charging setup. The Mobile Connector is not all-weather rated, continued exposure of the Mobile Connector to rain and dampness will shorten the life of the Mobile Connector.

thanks jcanoe for the info

 

[wws]

right, the capacity of the electrical box is 100amp. the only other appliance that draws a considerable amount is the central AC unit. for this reason, I will only be charging at night and setting the amperage from the car to 32amp or less.

and thanks for addressing the grounding question i had.

With only 100 amp service and AC, you might want to start thinking in terms of a 14-30 instead of a 14-50. In residences, 14-30s are generally used for clothes dryers.

 

[gfunkdave]

Or even a 6-20. Many people have a good experience with that. It still gives you 240V and somewhere around 12-15 miles/hr of charge. If you aren't driving hundreds of miles a day then it would work fine.