neroden's NOT happy.

[mknox]

If the OP has a problem with telematics, this is not the car for him. Stay away from any cars with OnStar, too.
If the OP believes Tesla's out to screw him, this is not the company for him.

If I understand correctly, it had to do with some sort of liability on the purchaser with respect to the telematics system - - not the system itself. I have had OnStar for years, and never had to indemnify GM or anyone else for "abuse of the system" if the car gets stolen. Sure, a thief could use up all my calling minutes, but they're pre-paid anyway. In fairness to the OP, Tesla does seem a bit "heavy handed" with the legal language. I had to sign my life away for both of the test drives I took, and my original sales paperwork had language about the car being sold "as-is" and that they had opted out of the arbitration programs that most (admittedly, not all) car makers are a part of. Overall, I've been happy with Tesla and the process, but just want to be balanced here.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

As for Kevin's comments, neroden has had the little red box for quite some time

oh, that's easy.... just say something against the hive mind :wink:

 

[bonnie]

Kevin, stop. This isn't a case of you standing up for the guy going against the grain. You insult the forum with these types of comments.

there are plenty of negative comments around. What you see in this thread are people tired of one person's complaints, threatening they'll sue Tesla over nonsense, countless proclamations of "if they don't do [ this ] that will be a deal-breaker".

I find it all tiresome.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Kevin, stop. This isn't a case of you standing up for the guy going against the grain. You insult the forum with these types of comments.

It's a joke based on my personal experience of taking an unpopular stance in TMC.

My point is that if 'you' have an issue with the OP then that should be tackled by the mods rather than by attacking the OP. The mods can easily close this thread if it's deemed to be inappropriate.

 

[Beavis]

Not just that he threatened to sue but claiming actual illegalities and also recruiting owners to sue because he couldn't (he didn't have his car yet). Some tried reasonable discussion but it always ended up going toward legal threats.

Prediction: This ends in posts getting moved to the Snippiness thread.

 

[bonnie]

It's a joke based on my personal experience of taking an unpopular stance in TMC.

My point is that if 'you' have an issue with the OP then that should be tackled by the mods rather than by attacking the OP. The mods can easily close this thread if it's deemed to be inappropriate.

it appears that disagreeing with you results in negative reputation being given. Yet you feel people should be free to disagree. Giving negative rep because you don't like what someone says seems a bit at odds with your position, doesn't it?

thanks for the laugh.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

it appears that disagreeing with you results in negative reputation being given.

I clearly stated my issue, namely that "You insult the forum with these types of comments" which I regarded as a personal attack.

 

[NigelM]

Prediction: This ends in posts getting moved to the Snippiness thread.

10, 9, 8, 7.....

 

[Todd Burch]

And the "telematics services agreement", which I would never sign because it purports to have me indemnify Tesla if my car gets stolen and someone else abuses the "telematics". No way in hell.

If I understand correctly, it had to do with some sort of liability on the purchaser with respect to the telematics system - - not the system itself. I have had OnStar for years, and never had to indemnify GM or anyone else for "abuse of the system" if the car gets stolen. Sure, a thief could use up all my calling minutes, but they're pre-paid anyway.

I'm failing to understand what sort of realistic situation you're imagining in which large damage/losses could occur via telematics if your car is stolen. How would the telematics be abused by someone who's stolen the car in a way to cause significant harm? Maybe I'm failing to see the forest for the trees, but isn't this reading a bit too much into things?

OK, after thinking of this a second, to me the language basically means that if someone steals your car, then downloads a lot of data, Tesla's not responsible for data overage fees. That's reasonable. In fact, Tesla can freakin' shut the car down remotely if it's stolen, or track it. What are you honestly worried about?

 

[NigelM]

Mods ... could you change the title of this thread, maybe?
Kinda bad landing page for this forum to see NOT happy as the headline for New posts?
Or is that censorship?

I don't think there's cause to change it just because it's negative. Personally I think it says gobs about the car that Neroden feels he has horrible service but he still wants one.

 

[nrcooled]

I also agree that the overall delivery process could have been more transparent, the tag and titling process could have been more transparent, and the due bill process needs work (still waiting for an item).

With that said, Tesla came through on all items (except the due bill item which I'm still waiting for) in the time that they promised.

1. Original delivery estimate of May 2013 (CHECK beat by 5 months)
2. Early Delivery Email of 15-31 Dec execution (CHECK just got in under the wire with all docs signed and finalized Dec 31)
3. Car delivered by first week of January (CHECK and delivered EARLY on top of everything else)
4. VA Tags/title complete within 60 days (CHECK and completed in 45 days)
5. Due bill item - Rear hatch foot-well cover (In progress)

I've got no complaints and the car is awesome. As for the indemnification of Tesla and agreements that must be signed I didn't have any issues with them personally. To me they just seemed like legal jargon.

After re-reading the agreement I say that Todd Burch has completely hit the nail on the head with his interpretation

 

[montgom626]

I don't think there's cause to change it just because it's negative. Personally I think it says gobs about the car that Neroden feels he has horrible service but he still wants one.

His desire to have a car that he complains about the service just makes my head hurt.

 

[neroden]

Whew. So I got a response. A good one.

Tesla is really trying to do the right thing. They just haven't quite got their act together yet.

* The six-page "Telematics Services Agreement" is gone, replaced by one paragraph. I haven't seen this paragraph yet, but this has to be an enormous improvement. Apparently this change was already in the works but nobody had bothered to make it for me.
* My paperwork is being redone -- correctly this time, hopefully.
* Tesla is having a meeting about this stuff and will call me to get feedback.

I have seen nothing to change my opinion that Tesla's legal team is incompetent, but I am giving further feedback. Hopefully the customer service team will lean on the legal team and get the remaining issue I've identified fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

His desire to have a car that he complains about the service just makes my head hurt.

As I've been saying, "I just want to buy an electric car. Is that so hard?"

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think there's cause to change it just because it's negative. Personally I think it says gobs about the car that Neroden feels he has horrible service but he still wants one.

It does, doesn't it? :wink:

 

[doug]

Sorry, just checking in here, but what is this thread about? I see little actually having to do with the Model S. Moving to Off Topic.

 

[brianman]

As I've been saying, "I just want to buy an electric car. Is that so hard?"

Apparently yes. That's why there are (to me at least) no other compelling choices besides Tesla's offerings. Yet, with that in mind you seem bent on criticizing every misstep they make. I'm confused by this strategy in reaching your goals.

 

[AnOutsider]

Apparently yes. That's why there are (to me at least) no other compelling choices besides Tesla's offerings. Yet, with that in mind you seem bent on criticizing every misstep they make. I'm confused by this strategy in reaching your goals.

To be fair, he can dislike the company and still want the product. As you've both said: there's pretty much no choice when it comes to it.

 

[brianman]

To be fair, he can dislike the company and still want the product. As you've both said: there's pretty much no choice when it comes to it.

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

You're welcome to buy some food that makes you break out in a rash and then eat it, but I don't understand why you do it on purpose.

I was hoping he could explain the why in this scenario. Not because he has to justify himself, but rather because I'm really interested to understand the psychology here.

- - - Updated - - -

Whew. So I got a response. A good one.

Tesla is really trying to do the right thing. They just haven't quite got their act together yet.

So is the now more precise thread title inaccurate? Or are you still unhappy? If unhappy, please elaborate on the next set of concerns so we can perhaps assist in addressing them.

 

[neroden]

I got insurance for my Model S 3 full weeks before I got the car. Not hard at all once you have a VIN.

I was told "You cannot insure that which you do not own". Now, I can *get* insurance before I get title to the car, but apparently the insurance cannot become *effective* until I get title to the car -- the insurer needs an "effective date". This requires some sort of coordination and I've been having trouble figuring out how to make this happen. I also haven't been able to figure out when Tesla legally transfers title. I've been trying to find someone who can explain the procedure.

I did have communication problems until the day I actually got my car (Jan 21),

Well, that's where I am -- serious communication problems. Maybe it will all get better when I have the car.

I also knowingly signed up for a bad experience,

See, I didn't. I told them to take their time and get it right.

One recurring problem is that nobody at Tesla's sales side seems to be able to reliably get accurate information. I don't blame them, I blame a lack of system. The other is, as I have said, that their legal team is not what I would consider competent.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, just checking in here, but what is this thread about?

Tesla customer service.

I see little actually having to do with the Model S. Moving to Off Topic.

Move it back to something related to Tesla Motors. It is definitely NOT off topic.

 

[Johan]

Never argue a quibbler - you can't win and it's never about the issue but about the never ending fight. That's the nature of a cantankerous person.

 

[neroden]

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

You're welcome to buy some food that makes you break out in a rash and then eat it, but I don't understand why you do it on purpose.

I was hoping he could explain the why in this scenario. Not because he has to justify himself, but rather because I'm really interested to understand the psychology here.

Because I anticipate that everything will be great when I get the car. (I have been in a showroom and seen a showroom model.) It's just the process of getting it which is like pulling teeth.

Consider the "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld.

So is the now more precise thread title inaccurate? Or are you still unhappy? If unhappy, please elaborate on the next set of concerns so we can perhaps assist in addressing them.

I'm hoping things will get straightened out, but I'm not going to be happy until this is over and I can simply, you know, drive my car. Without having signed away my firstborn.

- - - Updated - - -

I had trouble getting the numbers correct on my MPVA. After two attempts I said **** it and just executed it. They over charged me $35 in the end but it was for the "cause".

When the car arrived it was all worth it!

Good grief. You can see that Tesla needs to fix this sort of thing, surely?