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Nervous Nelly [FSD Complaint]

Togg

Member
Mar 24, 2019
88
55
CA
Togg, you mentioned about towing. You may want to re-calibrate your cameras after you attached your tow as it may affect your cameras view angles. Also, I think most of the phantom breaking are due to the collision detection software, and not the cruise portion. A tow may sway relative to the back end of the car, hence the views of the two side back view camera.
Thank you for the suggestion. However, the unexpected sudden braking started before I was towing. Towing only makes unexpected sudden braking much more dangerous.

I don't think it's possible for the Tesla to know just how slick the road is.

Sometimes I even have to find a safe place to gently test the traction to know what the road and tires are good for. Normally when it's slick here they sand the road, and this to a measure helps. So therefore it's a really bad idea for the Tesla to apply the brakes on it's own, because it just can not know what will happen on a slick road. I think it would be great if it's eyesight were better than mine. But when stopped at a red light for example, with other cars stopped around me, the little gray screen renderings of the other cars around me often jump around on the screen, as if the computer is not really sure of exactly where they are. This is a really bad thing I think and it shows me that the cameras and the image processing engine still has a long way to go to be sure of the car's surroundings. Add slick roads to this and I simply don't trust the car on those grounds alone. Then add to it this unexpected sudden braking, and that's way over the top bad for my health long term.

(I should add that I personally know what it is to slide around in a moving vehicle. I've been in a vehicle which slipped into a guard rail one night (I wasn't driving). I've also been on black ice and done a 180 degree turn about in my truck while towing a trailer while in 4wd and at only 25 miles an hour. There is no way that any amount of further camera calibration can even begin to deal with black ice I don't think. Should I have had on chains that day. Yes, in hindsight I should have had on chains. We all make mistakes sometimes. So you could say I re-calibrated, and now won't drive that section under those conditions without chains. So this is partly why I am so serious about this unexpected sudden braking issue.)

Thank you for the idea.
 

Togg

Member
Mar 24, 2019
88
55
CA
If the driver wanted a dumb cruise control, then the driver should buy a car with dumb cruise control. Tesla does not offer it and it goes against the entire design philosophy of the car, which is to make it more automated, not less.
I'm hearing that more automated is important to you.

But how can you say this in general? Are there not a number of competing 'design philosopy's, including: all electric, safer, fast, powerful, simpler, more automated, fun to drive, top of the line, stylish, affordable, reliable, practical, build able in scale, durable, etc.

Isn't more automated just one of many competing design criteria in the bigger picture?
 

Togg

Member
Mar 24, 2019
88
55
CA
I think people would be less snippy when posters looking for suggestions or to vent aren't so intractable wrt to their position. "I've always done it this way" just sounds a bit silly when you replay it in your head.
While this 'always done it this way' thinking might apply to some people, I don't feel this applies to me at all. I'm constantly pushing the envelope, and people who know me have said that I'm a bigger, better, faster kind of guy. But safety IMHO is important.

It's ok to improve something, great in-fact! My house is full of gagets. But not ok to make it unsafe in the process of improving things.

And so yes, I would very much like a switch that allows me to dumb down the cruse control to get rid of the sudden unexpected breaking, until it's working better.

For example, it's sort of like the switch that browsers (Firefox, IE, Safari, etc.) had (and most still have) to allow javascript to be turned off if there appeared a dangerous problem. Today we all trust javascript more. But in it's early years it needed an off switch just to make sure it was safe from unexpected sudden craziness.
 

Togg

Member
Mar 24, 2019
88
55
CA
There is also at least one (actually, more) legal action against Tesla about this issue.

For the record, I do NOT want Tesla to be sued over this. I love the Teslas we have. We need Tesla to help save the climate. I just want this issue addressed so its not a safety issue. How am I suppose to encourage other people to buy a Tesla, when this problem continues to be really unsettling when driving the car. I'm hoping to get my partner's daughter in a Tesla. But I cringe to think of what she will think of me when it first does this to her.
 

Corndart

Active Member
Oct 11, 2021
1,073
1,364
Seattle
Do you even know what the Turing test entails? If you're arguing that defining FSD as "artificial intelligence" requires it pass the Turing test then go google it and then come back to explain its relevancy to FSD in our Tesla's. Every modern programming language back to C is Turing complete. And AI has significantly evolved in terms of its definition and application since 1950 when Turing published his now seminal work on AI.
 

Gray Man

∇x E = -∂B(t)/∂t
Oct 27, 2022
118
342
Augusta, GA
Do you even know what the Turing test entails? If you're arguing that defining FSD as "artificial intelligence" requires it pass the Turing test then go google it and then come back to explain its relevancy to FSD in our Tesla's. Every modern programming language back to C is Turing complete. And AI has significantly evolved in terms of its definition and application since 1950 when Turing published his now seminal work on AI.
I wasn't taking a position, specifically. You made a statement in the form of a logical syllogism, so I'd thought it be a funny reply. Maybe I should have put the sarcasm tag on too...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Corndart

Corndart

Active Member
Oct 11, 2021
1,073
1,364
Seattle
For the record, I do NOT want Tesla to be sued over this. I love the Teslas we have. We need Tesla to help save the climate. I just want this issue addressed so its not a safety issue. How am I suppose to encourage other people to buy a Tesla, when this problem continues to be really unsettling when driving the car. I'm hoping to get my partner's daughter in a Tesla. But I cringe to think of what she will think of me when it first does this to her.
We don't "need" Tesla to help save the climate, they're a tiny variable in a much larger equation. They moved the needle in terms of pushing the industry towards BEV, but technological advances are littered with examples of failed companies that innovated and got swept away by competition that outmaneuvered them.
 
Thank you for the suggestion. However, the unexpected sudden braking started before I was towing. Towing only makes unexpected sudden braking much more dangerous.

I don't think it's possible for the Tesla to know just how slick the road is.

Sometimes I even have to find a safe place to gently test the traction to know what the road and tires are good for. Normally when it's slick here they sand the road, and this to a measure helps. So therefore it's a really bad idea for the Tesla to apply the brakes on it's own, because it just can not know what will happen on a slick road. I think it would be great if it's eyesight were better than mine. But when stopped at a red light for example, with other cars stopped around me, the little gray screen renderings of the other cars around me often jump around on the screen, as if the computer is not really sure of exactly where they are. This is a really bad thing I think and it shows me that the cameras and the image processing engine still has a long way to go to be sure of the car's surroundings. Add slick roads to this and I simply don't trust the car on those grounds alone. Then add to it this unexpected sudden braking, and that's way over the top bad for my health long term.

(I should add that I personally know what it is to slide around in a moving vehicle. I've been in a vehicle which slipped into a guard rail one night (I wasn't driving). I've also been on black ice and done a 180 degree turn about in my truck while towing a trailer while in 4wd and at only 25 miles an hour. There is no way that any amount of further camera calibration can even begin to deal with black ice I don't think. Should I have had on chains that day. Yes, in hindsight I should have had on chains. We all make mistakes sometimes. So you could say I re-calibrated, and now won't drive that section under those conditions without chains. So this is partly why I am so serious about this unexpected sudden braking issue.)

Thank you for the idea.
I understand that. I used to live in Minnesota and Upstate New York in my younger days. I have my share of spin outs. One time I did a 360 hit the guard rail and punctured the gas tank without knowing. Next day when I filled up in the gas station and saw my $$ going up and up. The gas all went into the snow cover under the car!!
 
While this 'always done it this way' thinking might apply to some people, I don't feel this applies to me at all. I'm constantly pushing the envelope, and people who know me have said that I'm a bigger, better, faster kind of guy. But safety IMHO is important.

It's ok to improve something, great in-fact! My house is full of gagets. But not ok to make it unsafe in the process of improving things.

And so yes, I would very much like a switch that allows me to dumb down the cruse control to get rid of the sudden unexpected breaking, until it's working better.

For example, it's sort of like the switch that browsers (Firefox, IE, Safari, etc.) had (and most still have) to allow javascript to be turned off if there appeared a dangerous problem. Today we all trust javascript more. But in it's early years it needed an off switch just to make sure it was safe from unexpected sudden craziness.
Curious where y’all keep your right foot when running in cruise mode, in any vehicle?
 

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