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Neural Networks

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by lunitiks, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Its just odd Tesla restricted turning radius at certain speeds (resulting in my car previously touching or even crossing lane lines during sweeping curves but tight curves went OK (since the car would slow and in some cases almost stop).

    Good luck getting the update its being sent like crazy, so if you're on wifi you will get it (or use mobile hotspot). This one is worth it. Really impressive (the superlatives come easy with this build).
     
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  2. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Its not $3k (unless you mean AP1 which was $3k at the end). EAP is $5k ($6k after delivery). I'm not sure you need a change order to add software (I bought it all including FSD). FSD should be worthwhile as well because they finally have a NN that could enable those features.

    @jimmy_d -- do you see any hints of stop sign or red light recognition? Is there anything to prevent the fisheye from being used for that task? You mentioned cars and pedestrians but a red/yellow/green light is fairly easy to identify (as is a stop sign). I'm just shocked that this feature isn't at least being hinted at in the code (unless FSD is really an entirely different codebase).
     
  3. croman

    croman Active Member

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    10.4 did all the turns that prior ones failed on at all speeds. I just did a trip to downtown Chicago and back on I-90/94 and it could do the sweeping curves at 80mph. 17.50.2 took me into the next lanes and 17.50.3/18.6.1 would take me to the lines (which is super dangerous).

    I'll take it on Sheridan Rd (my torture test road). I consistently have 4 disengagements. It features gorges, hills, blind turns, and lots of winding with elevation changes (as good as that gets in IL). If it has 0 disengagements, bring on L3.
     
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  4. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    It may have been a self imposed safeguard to minimize the effect of bad control commands. i.e. no ability for AP to throw the car sideways too quickly.

    If they were using full color cameras. I think they only have red and grey feeds.
    (still need to distinguish which light for which lane, yielding rules, yadda, yadda)
     
    • Informative x 1
  5. DragonRider

    DragonRider Member

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    I'm not @jimmy_d , but this has been in the code for a very long time:
    Tesla’s new Autopilot update detected and displayed stop signs, but it didn’t act on them

    I don't think they trust it yet, or they aren't ready to act on it yet, clearly they are still trying to get EAP to work right, local roads is an entirely different mess, because before / during stop sign / light recognition they also have to solve the untracked car problem at those stop lights and stop signs.
     
  6. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Am I correct in thinking stopping at a stop sign can be classified as a level 3 thing, but starting from a red light or stop sign is a level 4 thing?
     
  7. JamesL6

    JamesL6 Member

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    @jimmy_d Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly, have the main, narrow, and repeaters separated themselves from GoogleNet and are running a NN that was developed by Tesla while the fisheye is still running on GN?
     
  8. TrafficEng

    TrafficEng Member

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    Yeah, you will not regret it. I can't imagine driving without AP, even with the current limitations.

    I received 2018.10.4 and on my drive today (about 150 miles) the lane keeping; slow down for curves; and detecting stopped vehicles ahead were all substantially improved.
     
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  9. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    I’m completely layman, but isn’t this much easier to do? I’ve understood, that vision is the hard part. Aren’t the actual driving decisions like “drive between the lines - don’t collide with pedestrians “ much easier and more like simpler binary logic?
     
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  10. Dan Detweiler

    Dan Detweiler Active Member

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    So...I am a complete imbecile when it comes to technology! Trying to translate your wonderful analysis (which to me sounds like Greek!). Is the system now using more of the cameras than in previous versions or is it using the same number of cameras and sensors, just changing the way the information is gathered and interpreted...or both?

    Seems to be a dramatic improvement over previous versions.

    Thanks for the help.

    Dan
     
  11. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    • Like x 8
  12. croman

    croman Active Member

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    No new active cameras yet. This is simply a major improvement in the software that the system uses to interpret the visual information from the 3 active cameras. Software is written but not yet active for at least 2 more cameras (side repeater cams).
     
  13. Shateam

    Shateam Member

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    I'm sure this has been asked already but do you know if EAP will eventually use the side repeater cams or are the side and b-pillar cams reserved for FSD only?
     
  14. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Senior Software Engineer

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    Its quite amusing to watch all the hysterical that came with this update, people proclaiming that this proves that FSD is on the way.
    I think everyone one needs to take a second and chill for a minute. Sure i'm excited to see Tesla fans finally get their cherry popped. :p

    But none of this is proof of FSD and is simply cruise control and lane-keeping. Lastly no, driver features such as stop signs, and traffic light has nothing to do with level 3 or level 4.

    Level 3 means the driver is no longer responsible for monitoring the road and environment and can then attend to other task like watching a video, movie, texting, reading a book, etc. The car will have to give the driver a reasonable duration of time to return back into the loop and resume control (ex 10 secs).

    Level 4 means the driver is not needed, therefore the driver could go to sleep the entire trip or not even be anyone of the driver seat.

    Basically:

    - Level 0-1 = Hands on
    - Level 2 = Hands off
    - Level 3 - Eyes off
    - Level 4-5 - Mind off


    So lets try not to get lost in the sauce here. ;)
     
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  15. bhakan

    bhakan Member

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    Right now it does not recognize another car entering the lane that I am changing to using AP when I am on the highway (US). Specifically, if I am doing an autolane change to the right lane and if a car from the far right lane suddenly the camera/sensors do not quickly recognize and make driving decisions. I, the driver, have to make quick decisions for the other driver's driving decision. This could possibly be because the calculations made with the existing software/camera etc does not quickly let my car accelerate/decelerate to avoid collision. I am nor programmer. Just an observation. I have seen this happen to me quiet often when I drive during rush hour on our Beltway.
     
  16. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    I was unclear, I was trying to ask if stopping for a traffic signal is a lower level on the scale than choosing to go after stopping. If so, adding stop sign recognition without also having the ability to then start again is a broken feature.

    Car and driver's level 3 definition:
     
  17. kvandivo

    kvandivo Member

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    That's why they call him Jimmy The Greek... Oh wait.. nevermind..
     
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  18. Dan Detweiler

    Dan Detweiler Active Member

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    I don't see many folks using this update as proof FSD is just around the corner, although personally I think it's closer than many believe. I see it as evidence that significant progress is being made. Without progress it will never happen, that's for sure.

    Dan
     
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  19. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Senior Software Engineer

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    #199 Bladerskb, Mar 17, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
    navigating traffic signs/light has nothing to do with defining level 2/3/4.

    Car and drivers definition is HUGELY incorrect which is not surprising seeing almost every statement about SDC from the media is filled with misinformation. That is why you should go to the actual SAE document.

    [​IMG]

    But here's a good explanation by toyota at 20 minutes
     
    • Informative x 2
  20. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Senior Software Engineer

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    What is "closer than many believe"?

    and why is it "closer"?
     

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