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New 2021 Model S Unveiled January 27, 2021

CapeOne

Member
Jun 14, 2016
826
524
New England
BMW and Audi would force people to take the old one for the old price that already depreciated a lot instead. I'd rather get a discount on the new one or have the option to cancel than being forced to pay full price for something that was old even before I got it.
BMW and Audi won't "force" people to do anything. At least in the U.S., a customer can back out of an order any time prior to delivery (and sometimes even after). A customer can choose to take delivery of the car they ordered at the price ordered or not.

The issue here is that Tesla is not giving customers that option. Yes, a customer can back out of an order. Yes, a customer can choose the newer, more expensive model.... BUT NO they are not able to take delivery of the car ordered at the price ordered. This is not about which may or may not be the better choice, it's that one of the options (delivering a car at the ordered price) is not being honored.

This is also generating some "bait and switch" talk because the option Tesla isn't honoring is the lower price option that was being promoted at the time orders were made.
 

1965Cobra427

Supporting Member
Nov 24, 2020
68
106
Wally World
All of the sudden, the round wheel looks dated to me.

Tesla-Model-S-round-steering-wheel-01.jpg
 

Ofarlig

Member
Mar 4, 2018
302
256
Sweden
BMW and Audi won't "force" people to do anything. At least in the U.S., a customer can back out of an order any time prior to delivery (and sometimes even after). A customer can choose to take delivery of the car they ordered at the price ordered or not.

The issue here is that Tesla is not giving customers that option. Yes, a customer can back out of an order. Yes, a customer can choose the newer, more expensive model.... BUT NO they are not able to take delivery of the car ordered at the price ordered. This is not about which may or may not be the better choice, it's that one of the options (delivering a car at the ordered price) is not being honored.

This is also generating some "bait and switch" talk because the option Tesla isn't honoring is the lower price option that was being promoted at the time orders were made.

Yeah that isn't the case over here, they will hold you to the contract even when they deliver 3 months late.

If there are no more old ones taking delivery of one isn't an option, so I don't see a problem with Tesla doing the same thing as just about every other e-tailer does in that situation. At least over here they have the law on their side so giving a discount on the new model goes beyond their obligations.
 

1965Cobra427

Supporting Member
Nov 24, 2020
68
106
Wally World
Here is a clause in the agreement that addresses Tesla's right to cancel if a product or feature is discontinued. Highlight is mine. I agree, reading the contract would put anyone on notice.

No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith. We may also cancel your order and refund your Order Fee, Order Deposit and Transportation Fee if we discontinue a product, feature or option after the time you place your order or if we determine that you are acting in bad faith.

I could find nothing in the contract that binds Tesla to offer a $2,000 discount on the sale of the new and improved (IMO) product. Sure, I'm disappointed that I will not get the heavily updated product at the old price. Thinking back, I allowed my expectation to rise with the fantasies of many who speculated here on this Forum that the new refreshed design and all of it's features would be a windfall to me.

I fail to see anything Tesla has done which is dishonorable.

BTW, over the years and through more than seventy vehicle purchases, I have placed orders for cars several times, only to find out that that vehicle was no longer available. Sometimes it cost me money. Sometimes I ended up with something better. For me this is one of the latter.
 

pkitch

Member
Mar 9, 2020
238
76
Atlanta
And in an emergency evasion situation, of course every driver will be able to delicately modulate steering effort according to vehicle speed. /s :([/
I personally love the yoke, 99.999% of my drive time im barely turning that thing anyway, its mostly slight turns, and even going on mointain roads its almost never more than 90 degree turn. I can imagen it beeing problematic in roundabouts or when parking, but I can live with that the pluss side is opening up the display and front window a lot.

Not worried about the prnd either, worst case the AI sucks and you have to change gear on the screen, which you do when standing still anyway and its like what, 2-4 times per drive? Not bad.
Only problem I can see is using the blinkers when having the yoke turned, for example when exiting roundabouts. And why is both blinker buttons on the left side? Id rather have the right blinker on the right side

The steering ratio will be variable, so even for tighter turns your hands won’t need to rotate outside of the comfort angle.
As for the turn signals, Tesla have billions and billions of driving patterns recorded, I’ll wager they’ll be AI activated with very little need for intervention.
The AI generated drive mode is interesting but then coupled with the above plus their new enhanced NN it starts to get a lot more feasible and has obviously been tested to avoid cratering the product when in customers hands.
As for the steering wheel controls, these are described as force touch which suggests to me they have haptic feedback, so when your finger moves over the printed icon, it will ‘pop’ and you’ll be able to feel and and then push on it harder to activate, in other worlds you won’t have to look.
Overall it’s certainly interesting and will need to work really well in order to avoid frustrating situations.
 
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DukeofURL

Member
Apr 1, 2016
493
599
North NJ
Quite agree. And I actually like the yoke. It’s cool/different, and really opens up the driver’s space.

I suspect I’m far from alone in diggin’ it.

The auto-PRND thing, though, kinda worries me, in a ‘what could go wrong’ way (i.e. plenty?).
.
I agree on both accounts, but as with all Tesla features, I’m sure the behavior will be customizable to what you prefer. I have some of the auto features on, and some off.
 
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CapeOne

Member
Jun 14, 2016
826
524
New England
Here is a clause in the agreement that addresses Tesla's right to cancel if a product or feature is discontinued. Highlight is mine. I agree, reading the contract would put anyone on notice.

No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith. We may also cancel your order and refund your Order Fee, Order Deposit and Transportation Fee if we discontinue a product, feature or option after the time you place your order or if we determine that you are acting in bad faith.

This was already raised by at least one other person. What you highlighted in red applies to AFTER the time an order has been placed and an argument has been made that Tesla had already discontinued the "product" BEFORE some people placed orders. Tesla was still promoting and accepting orders at the lower prices up until January 26th I believe.

Another question is what defines a "product"? If the "Model S" is specifically the product, it hasn't been discontinued as Tesla is still making the Model S.
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
2,968
9,172
MI
Giving 50% of price increase or free fsd will make most happy.

And since people can cancel their order, every time there is a “perceived” upgrade coming, people will place a bunch of orders to only cancel them later. Yeah, not sustainable. I’d rather Tesla be streamline enough to try to keep prices down rather than the bloat of other manufacturers building extra that can be sold to dealers.

Every time TESLA does an upgrade, someone gets ticked off. Every single time.
 

SoCal Buzz

Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2018
472
379
Orange County, CA, USA
It sure is. How many other luxury automakers, like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc come out with an upgraded model, with better equipment as standard, say a BMW 5 and then charge $10k more for it? None. They would all be struggling if that happened. Makes no rational sense.

Tesla will drop the price eventually. The days of having the market to themselves are disappearing quickly and they will soon have to get much more competitive on price. I thought $69k was a good entry point, but not $10k more. Big mistake by Elon and after the initial rush of sales, probably higher end Model S, the S will struggle again.

~2 years ago the base price for 100D was $87K (after including $7500 tax credit!). So at $80K base today you get 80+ miles of range and many other hardware advancements. I think Tesla will price competitively, but don’t expect any big drops on their updated premium model.
 

msm859

Member
Oct 23, 2019
356
477
California
Here is a clause in the agreement that addresses Tesla's right to cancel if a product or feature is discontinued. Highlight is mine. I agree, reading the contract would put anyone on notice.

No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith. We may also cancel your order and refund your Order Fee, Order Deposit and Transportation Fee if we discontinue a product, feature or option after the time you place your order or if we determine that you are acting in bad faith.

I could find nothing in the contract that binds Tesla to offer a $2,000 discount on the sale of the new and improved (IMO) product. Sure, I'm disappointed that I will not get the heavily updated product at the old price. Thinking back, I allowed my expectation to rise with the fantasies of many who speculated here on this Forum that the new refreshed design and all of it's features would be a windfall to me.

I fail to see anything Tesla has done which is dishonorable.

BTW, over the years and through more than seventy vehicle purchases, I have placed orders for cars several times, only to find out that that vehicle was no longer available. Sometimes it cost me money. Sometimes I ended up with something better. For me this is one of the latter.
Sorry, I disagree. The question should not be what they think they can get away with from fine legal print, but what is the right thing to do - the best business practice. When they were taking deposits in December and January, they had NO intention of honoring those agreements. I know of NO other auto manufacturer who does that. I have specially ordered 8 new vehicles - never had an issue - even if they raised prices, I was price protected. GM will stop taking orders 6 months BEFORE a new generation of Corvettes is coming out. Tesla could have AND should have started telling people in December - if not earlier - that they would not be able to make a new order for a S or X because of changes and a significant price increase. For some people the extra $8-$10 k may be a bridge too far and they have now lost out on perhaps taking an inventory car. This is a classic bait and switch that has put some people in an unfortunate bind.
 

1965Cobra427

Supporting Member
Nov 24, 2020
68
106
Wally World
What you highlighted in red applies to AFTER the time an order has been placed and an argument has been made that Tesla had already discontinued the "product" BEFORE some people placed orders.

Tesla was still selling pre-update models through early January. I was asked to consider in-stock cars several times before I decided to go ahead with the upgrade. So does discontinued mean "ceased to produce" or "ceased to sell"? If the former, then every car maker would be in the same position, since they cease production long before they cease to sell from inventory. I think if the process for the buyer in question had gotten past the "here is your VIN" stage, an argument might be made that this constituted a more specific commitment on Tesla's part.

Also in the Agreement under Agreement to Purchase.
Options, features or hardware released or changed after you place your order may not be included in or available for your Vehicle.


Another question is what defines a "product"? If the "Model S" is specifically the product, it hasn't been discontinued as Tesla is still making the Model S.

I think the contract language covers that by including "feature or option". The BMW M3 is by one definition a "product" but nobody would argue that the first ones and the latest are the same product. Perhaps the ambiguity arises from Tesla's non-standard approach to continuous improvement vs the more traditional annual model changes.
 
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SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
2,968
9,172
MI
Well you’re not wrong I suppose, as I do think this steering yoke is just a gimmick, no actual benefit over a regular round wheel.

The “no actual benefit” is solely opinion. The 3rd video in post 572 above seems to disagree with your statement.

Like many things in life, to each their own. Cant please everyone. Hopefully Tesla will provide the round wheel as an option. Based on photos provided by others, I am leaning towards yes....they will.
 

NOLA_Mike

Grouchy
May 11, 2013
2,260
3,808
Hammond, LA
That kind of luddite view held Boeing back decades.

I think that kind of thinking still persists at Boeing - that's why SpaceX is kicking their butts in that sector too.

One of the complaints I personally had when I switched back from 2 years in a Model 3 to a Model S was the "giant" steering wheel (relative to Model 3 the Model S steering wheel seems much larger) that I had to keep much higher than I wanted to avoid the top of the steering wheel from blocking the upper portion of the dash screen (blocking the row of warning lights across the top, etc.). The yoke seemingly eliminates that issue.
 

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