New 60 can be charged to 100% daily without harming long-term battery

[Uncle Paul]

People think it is OK to range charge routinely, but no one knows for sure.

If this, indeed is the case, very few people will get much benefit from buying the 75 over the much less expensive 60.

 

[Cnasty]

I was told to keep it between the 50%-90% happy spot and only charge to 100% for trips.

 

[Electroman]

puzzled as to why would they say that for the 60 which is actually 75kWh

 

[ssrajputev]

I was told by three different sales/product specialists during my three separate test drives (yes, I know I had to drive it three times to get all of my questions answered) that I can freely charge my S60 to 100% with no long-term issues. The S75 is just there to give that extra 39 miles of average EPA rate range to help if you want to drive aggressively. I have no plan on upgrading mine though.

In contrast, I had an owner advisor tell me the opposite and old guideline to just charge to 90% for daily usage.

 

[CKCland]

I recently collected data from supercharging my new S60d - you can see the info here - Refresh Model S60D SC data | Tesla Motors . One of the other members charted the data out, some decent analysis here. Hope it helps

 

[emir-t]

I recently collected data from supercharging my new S60d - you can see the info here - Refresh Model S60D SC data | Tesla Motors . One of the other members charted the data out, some decent analysis here. Hope it helps

Wait I don't get it. If your full charge is 353V and this pack has the same old 14 modules, 353/84=4.2V. That seems like a full charge to me. It contradicts with it tapering off later too. Can anyone elaborate?

I thought what harms cells with the 100% charge was the voltage. You get some unwanted chemical reactions when you go above 4.1V. More often you go there the more you have them. So if 60D is indeed charging to 4.2V when at its 100% (albeit be a 75s 80%) then you can't charge to 100% daily. But how does supercharging taper later then??

Confusing.

 

[Lanber]

You reach maximum voltage long before 100% SOC on supercharging.
One way to test is charge to 100% and unplugg before it finishes, let it rest 15 minutes then hook it up again. Before it starts charging again you will see voltage on battery.

 

[CKCland]

Wait I don't get it. If your full charge is 353V and this pack has the same old 14 modules, 353/84=4.2V. That seems like a full charge to me. It contradicts with it tapering off later too. Can anyone elaborate?

I thought what harms cells with the 100% charge was the voltage. You get some unwanted chemical reactions when you go above 4.1V. More often you go there the more you have them. So if 60D is indeed charging to 4.2V when at its 100% (albeit be a 75s 80%) then you can't charge to 100% daily. But how does supercharging taper later then??

Confusing.

My only intent for collecting and posting the data was because I have been reading many questions related to the new software restricted S60. I am a newbie and will allow the more experienced owners to evaluate and speculate. You bring up an interesting point, as my data seems to demonstrate there is something different about this new battery. I am hoping some other owners will take the time and collect data at a supercharger like I did so we can see if this is consistent. @EVino really did a great job providing some comparable information and charts. Hopefully when more owners contribute we can better speculate what the changes are, if any.

 

[emir-t]

You reach maximum voltage long before 100% SOC on supercharging.
One way to test is charge to 100% and unplugg before it finishes, let it rest 15 minutes then hook it up again. Before it starts charging again you will see voltage on battery.

So you're saying we should measure open circuit voltage instead of charging close circuit voltage. Someone with one of those apps that give out pack voltage should report resting 100% SoC on 60D.

 

[ggnykk]

I recently collected data from supercharging my new S60d - you can see the info here - Refresh Model S60D SC data | Tesla Motors . One of the other members charted the data out, some decent analysis here. Hope it helps

Looks like your charging rate in kw keep going up and down throughout the whole charging session. Either heat issue related or Tesla intentionally throttle the speed to make it charge slower than the real 75 cars?

 

[Emmies]

i picked up my 60 today. i was told to limit it to 90% for daily use. when i mentioned that it's already limited, he said it didn't matter. it seems like everyone has a different answer.

 

[David99]

i picked up my 60 today. i was told to limit it to 90% for daily use. when i mentioned that it's already limited, he said it didn't matter. it seems like everyone has a different answer.

In a software limited 60, the battery can't be charged all way to 'full'. The software set's the 100% point to where the battery has 60 kWh. Charging a Lithium battery to full every day is not good for the life of the battery. But since the 60 has a software limiter you can never do that anyways. Charging a 60 to 100% is really only charging the battery about 80% full. In other words, it is perfectly fine to charge your software limited 60 all the way to 100% every day because in reality the batteries are only charged to 80%. Unfortunately the car will be warning you that setting the charge to 100% is bad for the battery. Tesla forgot to take that warning out for the software limited cars. But you can ignore it.

 

[Hota]

Tesla forgot to take that warning out for the software limited cars. But you can ignore it.

I don' think they "forgot" to take it out. I think it was left there intentionally to drive people to the more profitable 70.

 

[Chopr147]

I don' think they "forgot" to take it out.

Yea, they didn't forget anything. But it would be easy enough for them to remove the warning

 

[Emmies]

Here's my email chain with my delivery guy (different than the guy who did the walk through of the car with me). They seem to think that charging to 100% on a software limited battery is just as bad as charging to 100% on a non limited battery.





______________________________________________________________________________
Absolutely,


Fully charging and discharging the individual cells of the battery pack can slowly reduce the longevity of the cells over time. While it is a fairly nominal strain on the individual cells, if charged 100% every day, it could eventually cause battery degradation.


Feel free to reach out with any other questions and enjoy the new car!

Delivery Experience Specialist

__________________________________________________________________________________


Can you provide a more technical explanation?

___________________________________________________________________________________


Though the battery is software limited to 60kWh, our technicians still recommend charging the vehicle to 90% every day unless you are going to need a full charge for a road trip.


All the best,


Delivery Experience Specialist


_________________________________________________________________________________________

I had a question about charging I hope you can answer. I understand that tesla recommends not charging the battery more than 90% for daily use. I found some information online that suggests I could charge our software limited 6O kWh battery to 100% since it's really only charging about 80% of the 75 kWh battery. Can you confirm this is ok?



Thanks

 

[abasile]

Here's my email chain with my delivery guy (different than the guy who did the walk through of the car with me). They seem to think that charging to 100% on a software limited battery is just as bad as charging to 100% on a non limited battery.

I don't think they are saying that. Rather, they are dodging the question. Yes, of course we know that frequently charging the individual cells of the battery pack to 100% will somewhat hasten degradation. But we all know that the software-limited "60" doesn't really charge to 100%. Still, even with your "60", charging to 90% instead of "100%" will be slightly beneficial. Personally, if Tesla recommended 90% to me, even though not truly required for battery longevity, I would stick to 90% as long as that is plenty for each day's needs. That would give me some cover in the event of unexpected, premature degradation (very unlikely). But I also wouldn't hesitate to charge to 100% if I think I might need it.

Now that Tesla has dramatically lowered the price to unlock the full 75 kWh, of course, it's not worth thinking too hard about this. If the "60" capacity is absolutely enough, then great. But if it's borderline to the point where you always need "100%" charges, then it's probably worth spending $2K for the upgrade. That's peanuts compared to what the car cost.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

60 kWh and daily 100%, meh...

If you really wan't to do it a like a boss, you DC charge a 90 kWh to 100% daily!

 

[rayng]

I would stick to 90% for warranty's sake. Tesla has records of every time you charged to 100% and pressed the screen to ignore the warning. So if you were to ever need battery service within the 8 year time, Tesla may have the option to not cover you due to improper use. Just pay the 2k and upgrade to the 75 or charge to 90%. For most of us, most of the time, a 200 mile range is sufficient.

 

[whttiger25]

______________________________________________________________________________
Absolutely,


Fully charging and discharging the individual cells of the battery pack can slowly reduce the longevity of the cells over time. While it is a fairly nominal strain on the individual cells, if charged 100% every day, it could eventually cause battery degradation.


Feel free to reach out with any other questions and enjoy the new car!

Delivery Experience Specialist

__________________________________________________________________________________


Can you provide a more technical explanation?

___________________________________________________________________________________

Wow....talk about totally ignoring your question and responding with a bunch of canned BS! Gotta love when knowledgeable consumers are treated like the rest of the sheep.

If you do your research you will learn that either this Delivery Experience Specialist doesn't know what they are talking about, or they have been instructed to reply with the same response to all customers regardless of whether or not the battery is software limited.

Kindof a moot point going forward, as Tesla gave up on the software limiting battery strategy (for now), and this situation likely led to that decision. It is probably a good idea to just pay the $2k and unlock the rest of your battery, if you are even thinking about needing or wanting to charge to 100% every day.

 

[ucmndd]

A "100%" software locked 60 is charged to about 86% of the actual battery capacity. This was proven conclusively a couple weeks ago in the flurry of upgrades after the price drop.

Case closed.