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New 60D 100% Charge - Losing miles

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by NickF, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. NickF

    NickF 75D

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    There has been extensive conversations about charging the 60kw car (75kw battery) to 100%. No need to debate that. I've had a 60D for about 3 months. My 100% use to be about 221 rated miles and is now 217 miles. I'd be interested to see if other 60kw owners are experiencing the same behavior. This would appear to contradict the a lot of speculation found in other threads about top limiting. I wonder if it is due to a software/calculation change vs an actual physical voltage change.
     
  2. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    Top limiting could still use a % of overall calculated capacity for the 100%.
     
  3. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    Just thinking out loud ... so to speak.

    Im not sure I get why so much concern about minor fluctuations in total miles.

    Unless you drive 220 miles each time you leave your driveway .... but in the near 4 years I owned my last S, I never once cared about total miles vs percent of charge. I only drive less than 50 miles a day and charged to 80% anyhow.
     
  4. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    If it is like the 40kWh, the top limit is based on percentage (using exactly the same mechanism used to limit a car to 80% charge for example). It is not based on a set number of miles or capacity.

    This approach may lead to an inaccurate estimate however, since the pack is never charged to actual 100%.
     
  5. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    The miles estimate is just that -- an estimate. It is a calculated number based on a battery reading that cannot be made consistently. That number fluctuating a few percent is meaningless.

    My miles estimate fluctuates between 217 and 221, and there is no consistent trend, either up or down. There may be some variation based on the type of charging or the temperature or the starting point for the charge, I don't know, because it is meaningless as far as battery health is concerned, so I pay no attention.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    It is nothing to worry about. This seems to happen to every single one of these cars. Within the first 3-6 months, it will usually display about 5-10 fewer miles and then usually stays there for the next couple of years. It is presumably a little bit of deviance in the measurement.
     
  7. St Charles

    St Charles Member

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    We know that there is a calculation that goes into rated miles. We also know that conditions such as environmental factors, driving habits, and terrain can come into play when calculating capacity. Just like an ICE car, the "predicto-meter" will fluctuate as these factors change. I find it interesting that Electric Vehicles respond in a similar way to ICE cars yet we, as owners, do not perceive it the same.

    Back in the '80s, there was a car made by GM that had a hyper-accurate gas gauge. On paper and in studies this seemed like a value add to consumers as they would know exactly how much gas remained would be able to make better fuel stop decisions. The reality was that people got stranded more often and the perception over fuel economy was very negative for this vehicle. As a result, GM went back to the inaccurate-but-familiar behavior of the old gas gauge. This gauge behavior still exists today.

    Once I understood that what I was seeing was a much more accurate reading than I was used to, combined rated miles, I stopped worrying about it..
     
    • Informative x 1
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    The drop in the first year is expected, then less after that. My classic 60 started at 208 rated miles in 2013, was down to 204 miles in less than a year, and now is 200 miles rated range after more than 3 years. In total I've lost only 4% of the displayed rated range in more than 3 years. I'm very happy with that (yes I know the displayed range is an estimate).
     
  9. AllenWong

    AllenWong Member

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    Could be that you turned off Range Mode? I know that if you turn off/on Range Mode, the rated mile changes by about 4 miles or so.
     
  10. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Do we? I didn't think that the Tesla algorithm takes any of that into account.
     
  11. NickF

    NickF 75D

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    Forgive me as I need a little more help thinking it through...I thought that battery "fullness" is based on the measure of voltage. Ignoring the specific voltages in this example... If we take a 75kw pack and charge it 100%, it would be 5.00 volts. Then we charge the "60kw" version to 100%. I assume the charging logic would be looking for some voltage to stop at (let's say 4.00 volts but I know it's not linear). Now we move forward 100 charging cycles.... Wouldn't the 60kw charge still look for 4.00 volts? How would it even know what the theoretical max voltage was degraded if it can't actual charge that high anyway? Ie. shouldn't a 100% charge on a 60kw always report the same rated mileage if there is a lot left on top?
     
  12. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    Mine varies from 217 to 222 depending on weather conditions, previous consumption averages, and SOC when I charge. I have about 8000 miles on my 60D so far.
     
  13. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    But the amount of power aHs that a sell holds degrades over time, so even at the same voltage there may be fewer miles of capacity in the battery pack.

    And by the way 100% for the all of the actual packs is 4.2volts. And I think we still don't know if the "60kWh" version of the batter is charged to 4.2 volts, i.e. 100%, or if it is charged to a lower voltage that represents 80 or 90%.
     
  14. Lanber

    Lanber Member

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    Supercharging data strongly suggests battery is top limited.
     
  15. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I would just consider setting it to read percentage and not worrying about it. Makes little practical difference for daily driving.
     
  16. NickF

    NickF 75D

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    I'm not concerned about it, I just want to understand how it works. Still not clear. :)
     
  17. WARP 10

    WARP 10 Member

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    I have had my 60 (not a D) for about 6 weeks. Charging to 100% shows a range of 212-214. Range mode is on. Wonder what would cause this discrepancy between the 60 and the 60D?
     
  18. outOfPhase

    outOfPhase Member

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    Presumably 2 small motors are more efficient than 1 large motor. The Model S page on the Tesla site has an animated range calculator near the bottom of the page (well the UK one does anyway) and it shows the D getting higher mileage.
     
  19. WARP 10

    WARP 10 Member

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    Interesting. I hadn't seen that (at least not recently) and it makes sense. Was just talking to another owner who mentioned his FWD model got slightly less mileage.
     
  20. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    Efficiency of the dual motor system.
     

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