New 7 series bimmer v Model S

[sorka]

There is no question the BMW 7 series is a great car. And yes, technologically it is miles ahead of a Tesla, with the exception of the drivetrain of course. I've never owned a BMW (have never been crazy about their styling) but have owned several other luxury cars, all costing more or less what a Tesla does - and what I have come to realize over the years is that very little of all their advanced technological features and interior luxuriousness really doesn't do much for me. Yes, they are "cool" when they are first appearing on cars but I end up taking full advantage of few of them (and then resent having to pay huge dollars to fix them when they break - or I just leave them broken) and while being surrounded by a plush, wonderfully-crafted interior is nice, it isn't really a big deal for me personally. Maybe I just have simple tastes. About the only thing I wish Tesla did more like the other luxury cars is build a completely solid, rattle-free, extremely quiet body. I am always hearing noises come out of the suspension or body somewhere that I never would in a high-end Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, and I assume BMW. But they will get better in that regard I'm sure, and overall today I wouldn't trade my Tesla for anything.

Great comment about the cameras re dashcam usage. I'm on the fence about putting in a unit and am hoping that one morning I wake up to a software update that enables their cameras to operate as one. Would be much nicer, and not invite thieves to try to steal an expensive one that I installed.

I just installed my BlackVue 2 CH on Monday. I can't wait for Elon to decide to use the built in hardware for something as basic as that which is now appearing as optional factory equipment on other cars. Heck, even the Stingray has that option.

I don't know that I agree the 7 series is miles ahead technologically. I agree the 7 series has a lot of bells and whistles in the comfort and convenience department that the MS doesn't, but the MS also has tons if not more advanced features that the 7 series doesn't. Think about all the things you can do through the 17" screen and everything you can do on the app remotely. Little touches like geofencing features or tracking the car in the app. Think about all the things that can still be added because of the hardware that already exists that is only being utilized at about 10% of it's feature capability. Tesla engineers will be adding features and apps for years to come. I'm pretty sure that when you buy the 7 series that it's pretty much frozen and that software updates will address bugs if you're lucky and only if you have the dealer install it.

 

[kuttakamina]

I just installed my BlackVue 2 CH on Monday. I can't wait for Elon to decide to use the built in hardware for something as basic as that which is now appearing as optional factory equipment on other cars. Heck, even the Stingray has that option.

I don't know that I agree the 7 series is miles ahead technologically. I agree the 7 series has a lot of bells and whistles in the comfort and convenience department that the MS doesn't, but the MS also has tons if not more advanced features that the 7 series doesn't. Think about all the things you can do through the 17" screen and everything you can do on the app remotely. Little touches like geofencing features or tracking the car in the app. Think about all the things that can still be added because of the hardware that already exists that is only being utilized at about 10% of it's feature capability. Tesla engineers will be adding features and apps for years to come. I'm pretty sure that when you buy the 7 series that it's pretty much frozen and that software updates will address bugs if you're lucky and only if you have the dealer install it.

Acura asked me for $800 to update maps. I wonder what BMW charges, to update goddamned maps, that I can get for free on my phone. Idiots.

 

[brianman]

^ This.

I'd happily pay $1,000 more on my next Tesla to have "integrated camera that beats BlackVue's offering in every way".

Actually, now that I think about it, I should start including this in my formal feature requests to Tesla.

 

[kuttakamina]

I'd happily pay $1,000 more on my next Tesla to have "integrated camera that beats BlackVue's offering in every way".

Actually, now that I think about it, I should start including this in my formal feature requests to Tesla.

Why are tesla owners so happy to PAY or rather OVERPAY for stuff that should be standard at this price?

I'd be happy if they enabled this via a software update, so I don't have to go to a service center - and mailed me a low profile USB key for the trouble .. with the option of going to the service center for an internal memory card installation .. for free of course. That would make me happy.

But if Tesla asked $1000 for this, I'd feel like I'm being ripped off.

 

[Max*]

Why are tesla owners so happy to PAY or rather OVERPAY for stuff that should be standard at this price?

I'd be happy if they enabled this via a software update, so I don't have to go to a service center - and mailed me a low profile USB key for the trouble .. with the option of going to the service center for an internal memory card installation .. for free of course. That would make me happy.

But if Tesla asked $1000 for this, I'd feel like I'm being ripped off.

$1,000 to avoid paying an installer for a BlackVue is being ripped off vs. $600 for a center console is not?

 

[kuttakamina]

$1,000 to avoid paying an installer for a BlackVue is being ripped off vs. $600 for a center console is not?

BOTH are ripoffs. So is that damned apple watch. It costs then $83 to make it, and they sell it for $350 (plus 50 for Obama)
The car itself (Model S), is not such a huge ripoff. Batteries are expensive, and given what the car is, its reasonably priced.
I think they have a major profit margin per car, but you get future innovation, and superchargers for it.
But the accessories - yeah those are ripoffs.

That center console, should be part of the car. Even a Hyundai has a center console.

 

[Max*]

BOTH are ripoffs. So is that damned apple watch. It costs then $83 to make it, and they sell it for $350 (plus 50 for Obama)

Those silly capitalist companies trying to make money! How dare they!

 

[brianman]

Why are tesla owners so happy to PAY or rather OVERPAY for stuff that should be standard at this price?
...
But if Tesla asked $1000 for this, I'd feel like I'm being ripped off.

If they can match or beat BlackVue on features with Tesla quality, service, and warranty then $1,000 is a bargain. I paid $300 for the device and ~$300 for installation of my front-only BlackVue on my Sig. The battery in the camera needs replacement for the GPS and clock to work properly again; that's a "todo" for me which is part of why I haven't pulled the trigger on installing the dual-cam version on my new vehicle.

If Tesla offered "just works, with Tesla official support" it's well worth $1,000.

So, no, my point is that a good implementation from Tesla is well worth that $1,000. Definitely not overpay.

As for why I'd be happy to pay? It's an option -- you invest in the hardware and software. I don't expect Tesla to eat the costs for this feature set in the base offering.

 

[kuttakamina]

If they can match or beat BlackVue on features with Tesla quality, service, and warranty then $1,000 is a bargain. I paid $300 for the device and ~$300 for installation of my front-only BlackVue on my Sig. The battery in the camera needs replacement for the GPS and clock to work properly again; that's a "todo" for me which is part of why I haven't pulled the trigger on installing the dual-cam version on my new vehicle.

If Tesla offered "just works, with Tesla official support" it's well worth $1,000.

Yes compared to $600 aftermarket, vs $1000 factory installed, totally integrated with the car, with no risk + good warranty etc... I see your point.

BUT - software update, freebie, that'd be so awesome!

 

[caps04]

This BMW has a much more luxurious interior but as a parent with a young child, that's something I don't really miss. I like the lines and simplicity of the Model S but to each his own. Another thing I don't miss on BMWs and Mercedes is the maintenance costs. It's like you buy a luxury car and pay luxury costs throughout the ownership. With Tesla, I paid a lot upfront but I am really enjoying the lower day to day costs, besides the smile on my face every time I drive the car.

The way I see it:
BMW 7/Mercedes S - Great for people who are upper middle class or richer and want to be enveloped in luxury.
Model S - Great for eco conscious/software engineers who are middle class or richer and want to be enveloped in technology
(I say this personally: I can afford a 100k Model S but not a 100k S-550)

In terms of Tech, at best Tesla is behind the following features from this new BMW:
1) Laser adaptive Headlights (rumored to be coming)
2) Fancier puddle Lights (no big deal)
3) Heads up display (but I really love the Hi-Res Retina display of the Model S)
4) Lighted roof (Meh)
5) 6 aromas (Meh)

Everything else tech related is better in Model S IMHO. Either better implemented or less gimmicky.

 

[Max*]

The car itself (Model S), is not such a huge ripoff. Batteries are expensive, and given what the car is, its reasonably priced.
I think they have a major profit margin per car, but you get future innovation, and superchargers for it.
But the accessories - yeah those are ripoffs.

That center console, should be part of the car. Even a Hyundai has a center console.

But a Hyundai also has an engine/transmission. Sorry, couldn't resist.


I thought I'd be buying a Tesla center console as soon as they came back in stock, but after having the car for 5 days with no center console, I can't say that I miss it. (also my wife likes the minimalistic feel of not having one, so I think I'm not getting one after-all).

 

[liuping]

And for gods sake, why isn't the autopilot camera, and rear view camera, not being used as a dashcam? I hope they enable that via a software update, and let us stick a USB key in for storage. C'mon Elon? Please

The autopilot camera may not be suitable for a dash cam. It could be black and white, color skew or infrared sensitive. I know the Mobieye said their camera was not good for human viewing.

I think the rear camera is an uncompressed video stream, and would fill up a USB stick in a few minutes. It would require adding a on the fly video compression chip to make it viable as a dash cam.

I'd love to see integrate dash cam functionality on future Tesla's, but it's not something you can just add easily to the existing cars.

 

[Max*]

Everything else tech related is better in Model S IMHO. Either better implemented or less gimmicky.

Top and side view camera
Ventilated seats
Soft close doors
Rear entertainment systems
Night vision with pedestrian detection

And I'm sure I'm missing some options too... but that was form a quick glance at the 7-series specs.

 

[kuttakamina]

But a Hyundai also has an engine/transmission. Sorry, couldn't resist.
I thought I'd be buying a Tesla center console as soon as they came back in stock, but after having the car for 5 days with no center console, I can't say that I miss it. (also my wife likes the minimalistic feel of not having one, so I think I'm not getting one after-all).

I was able to order one last night (euro time). I was looking at all the stuff I have in my car right now
- Sunglasses
- Eye glasses (I HATE GETTING OLDER)
- Lotion (for those sensitive moments after a shower at the gym)
- Registration/Insurance/etc.etc.
- iPad (when I'm driving)
- Change
- Tissues
- Charging cable
- Pen
- etc

Also, sometimes you have stuff you want to conceal (not have in open view), and getting out of the car, opening the frunk etc. - yeah thats gonna draw attention.

Where do you keep all that stuff with no center console bro?

 

[Max*]

I was able to order one last night (euro time). I was looking at all the stuff I have in my car right now
- Sunglasses
- Eye glasses (I HATE GETTING OLDER)
- Lotion (for those sensitive moments after a shower at the gym)
- Registration/Insurance/etc.etc.
- iPad (when I'm driving)
- Change
- Tissues
- Charging cable
- Pen
- etc

Also, sometimes you have stuff you want to conceal (not have in open view), and getting out of the car, opening the frunk etc. - yeah thats gonna draw attention.

Where do you keep all that stuff with no center console bro?

I went through the items I had in my previous car, and discarded 90% of them, as they've been there for 9+ years and I haven't used them for 8+ years, lol.
A couple random things like the tire pressure gauge, and the tread depth gauge and the flat tire plug kit I placed into the UMC pouch

Eyeglasses -> on my eyes!
Sunglasses -> don't wear 'em. though I'm surprised there is no... storage space by the sunroof to hide them like most normal cars have!
Paper/pen -> glove box
Insurance -> globe box
Change -> Really? Tolls are ez-pass. Parking meters are credit card or phone-app
Charging cable -> Plugged into the 12V outlet
Tissues -> That wouldn't fit in a center console anyways
Charge cards -> Glove box or that little opening between the display and yacht floor

I can understand the appeal for a center console, trust me, I was pissed there wasn't one, and I wanted to buy one and then I was pissed that I couldn't. But now, after less than a week, I'm surprised at how OK I am without it.

We have a "road trip" coming up in a few weeks. I may change my mind again after that. But for daily driving, I don't miss it one bit.

 

[liuping]

BOTH are ripoffs. So is that damned apple watch. It costs then $83 to make it, and they sell it for $350 (plus 50 for Obama)

Sorry, but while the Apple watch is fairly expensive, it not cost $83 to make.

Not counting development (hardware and software) costs, factory tooling costs, marketing cost, etc is a little like saying saying a BMW should cost the same as a Hyundai, because they contain the same amount of metal. The cost of the parts is not the cost of making a product.

Also, why do you think Obama get's $50 per Apple Watch?

 

[kuttakamina]

Sorry, but while the Apple watch is fairly expensive, it not cost $83 to make.

Not counting development (hardware and software) costs, factory tooling costs, marketing cost, etc is a little like saying saying a BMW should cost the same as a Hyundai, because they contain the same amount of metal. The cost of the parts is not the cost of making a product.

Also, why do you think Obama get's $50 per Apple Watch?

The Apple Watch costs less than $84 to make - Business Insider
$50 sales tax (Obama's share - or well not Obama personally, but you know what I mean).

- - - Updated - - -

I went through the items I had in my previous car, and discarded 90% of them, as they've been there for 9+ years and I haven't used them for 8+ years, lol.

You might be right. But I got the center console anyway. Its $650 though. Grr. (with sales tax).

 

[caps04]

The Apple Watch costs less than $84 to make - Business Insider

By that logic Microsoft Windows and Office costs $0 to make.

 

[woof]

$50 sales tax (Obama's share - or well not Obama personally, but you know what I mean).

Last I looked, there was no Federal Sales Tax in the USA. Thus I don't know what you mean, as any sales tax goes to the State and/or Local municipality. Buy your stuff from states that have no sales taxes, such as Delaware, New Hampshire, Oregon, etc. if you don't wish to pay sales tax.

 

[sickfox]

Lots of bells and whistles in BMW but I'd take the Model S in a heartbeat! :biggrin:

Mr X, This below, and lots of Tesla Moments seals the deal for me!

Headlights are better than the Tesla's?

Ya.... No.