New 85kWH battery for my 2013 P85+

[LCR1]

Remember to pre-condition the battery pack. I see 40 kW on cold battery and 90 kW (peak rate for my ancient Classic 2013 S85) when battery has been sufficiently warmed. I use Bjorn Nylands technique, namely, accelerate full for 5 seconds, regenerate for 6 seconds, repeat for 60 seconds. This rules out charging on "cold" battery pack, ie, pack temperature lower than 28 C degrees.

Old post but I'd be weary of full acceleration for 5 seconds on a car at very low state of charge, as the point is to supercharge from very low to high % to see if the battery balances out.

 

[Chaserr]

I picked up my 2015 P85DL from service center today after a battery swap, and it seems I got the 350 V battery: "ASY-HV BATTERY,85KWH,SX(1014116-00-A)". The original battery was a real slow charger, particulary the last year, and it collapsed after 60 000 km.

this answers the questions we had of whether the new battery can withstand power draw from dual motors AND ludicrous. It seems the new 350v pack is a workhorse!

I could be wrong, but I thought the performance MS required the 400 Volts. That's what I've got anyway.

It did on the old packs but we've seen it on multiple P cars so far, and Ludicrous now.

400v just meant lower amps. These new 350s operate at higher amp rates.

 

[faughtz]

this answers the questions

400v just meant lower amps. These new 350s operate at higher amp rates.

How do you know they operate at higher current?

 

[Chaserr]

We've seen the 350v label and also seen it in action on performance cars. It has to operate on higher current or the volt drop would decrease performance about 12%

 

[faughtz]

It has to operate on higher current or the volt drop would decrease performance about 12%

True; can you point me to a post quantitatively documenting that higher current?

 

[Chaserr]

I don't think Tesla releases those documents but you can do the math. It's been used in P85+ and P85DL and the math for horsepower is volts * amps. Reducing volts necessarily requires amps to be increased or else power is decreased. Nobody has complained of massive power losses, and Ludicrous owners paid a lot for that power so they would complain immediately.

We do know from documented third party sources that the 400V version of what we believe t his battery is based on - the P100DL battery - is capable of over 1700 amps, and likely over 1800 amps with the most recent Raven Performance power increases. This means it's not a stretch to deliver the amps we know it must simply to be in legal compliance for installation as a warranty replacement in P85 AND P85DL.

Until a hacker posts the amp software settings (the only reason I know Ludicrous P100D amps) I don't think you are going to find an exact number but you should be able to easily calculate it yourself.

The interesting thing for people like me is if I get one of these batteries in my car, its usefulness in P85DL means that it can deliver enough amps to sustain full power far longer than the original battery. My original 400V felt slower by 90%, and much slower under 80% from volt drop, but t his battery could potentially be programmed to deliver higher amps as volts fall on a P85 for stable performance through a deeper portion of the charge curve. Probably not as much on your car, since you would need more amps at peak and there would be less to "hold in reserve" to offset with falling volts.

I still don't know if they will give you the promised 691 / 762 horsepower you're owed from their false promises but they think they can push enough amps to deliver the power they bothered to actually deliver originally. My bad napkin math says that they MIGHT be able to deliver as much as 740 peak horsepower at 1584 amps based on my very worthless and rough current power expectations of the 16 module Raven battery configuration reduced by 2 modules.

 

[faughtz]

I don't think Tesla releases those documents but you can do the math. It's been used in P85+ and P85DL and the math for horsepower is volts * amps. Reducing volts necessarily requires amps to be increased or else power is decreased. Nobody has complained of massive power losses, and Ludicrous owners paid a lot for that power so they would complain immediately.

We do know from documented third party sources that the 400V version of what we believe t his battery is based on - the P100DL battery - is capable of over 1700 amps, and likely over 1800 amps with the most recent Raven Performance power increases. This means it's not a stretch to deliver the amps we know it must simply to be in legal compliance for installation as a warranty replacement in P85 AND P85DL.

Until a hacker posts the amp software settings (the only reason I know Ludicrous P100D amps) I don't think you are going to find an exact number but you should be able to easily calculate it yourself.

The interesting thing for people like me is if I get one of these batteries in my car, its usefulness in P85DL means that it can deliver enough amps to sustain full power far longer than the original battery. My original 400V felt slower by 90%, and much slower under 80% from volt drop, but t his battery could potentially be programmed to deliver higher amps as volts fall on a P85 for stable performance through a deeper portion of the charge curve. Probably not as much on your car, since you would need more amps at peak and there would be less to "hold in reserve" to offset with falling volts.

I still don't know if they will give you the promised 691 / 762 horsepower you're owed from their false promises but they think they can push enough amps to deliver the power they bothered to actually deliver originally. My bad napkin math says that they MIGHT be able to deliver as much as 740 peak horsepower at 1584 amps based on my very worthless and rough current power expectations of the 16 module Raven battery configuration reduced by 2 modules.

Don’t need to be a hacker, multiple CAN bus apps give current and voltage. If you are “calculating” you need to account for significant voltage sag under load, esp at significant current.

I believe tesla will do as little as possible in each and every case. They have lowered the performance of my car repeatedly in firmware updates. “Legal compliance” means little since they are already guilty of theft.

 

[ucmndd]

“Legal compliance” means little since they are already guilty of theft.

Which court ruling was that?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Which court ruling was that?

The court of public opinion now, a court of law later. Watch the #batterygate/#chargegate class action lawsuit.

 

[ucmndd]

The court of public opinion now, a court of law later. Watch the #batterygate/#chargegate class action lawsuit.

Oh, the imaginary court. Got it.

In other news: All-fox jury finds hens guilty of being delicious! Film at 11.

 

[Myfirstone]

When do you get a “new” battery?

my battery has a useable capacity off 68kW and a max with the brick safety 73kW off the original Model S 85

 

[cduzz]

When do you get a “new” battery?

my battery has a useable capacity off 68kW and a max with the brick safety 73kW off the original Model S 85

At the moment, my understanding is that they will not give you the time of day unless the car is displaying a fault.

In the future they may be told to fix the problem by someone with the ability to impose penalties if they don't. In the future they may fix it themselves (with a gratis or pro-rated or exorbitantly expensive battery replacement). In the future they could continue to follow the same "GFY" repair posture.

There are strong, obvious reasons for each of these options to be "what's going to happen".

The current value of the 85kwh cars is impacted and their usability is anywhere from severely impacted to not impacted at all, depending on your desired usage. For me, the impact would be minimal because I almost never drive the car long distances and almost never supercharge, though it *would* add an hour or more to one particular trip I make every 6-8 months (drive from boston to vermont to buy a crapton of beer) and probably prevent me from taking the car on road-trip vacations.

For others, if you drive or want to drive 200+ miles in a day, the impact basically ruins the car, especially if you're trying to get between distant superchargers that are now impossible to get to, or that can only be reached by charging the battery to 98+% and taking 2+ hours to do so.

There's not much to do other than wait, and potentially if you're so inclined, find the group that's running the class-action suit, and / or potentially register complaints with the app every 2 months that the battery is getting worse and worse.

Otherwise, stay safe out there and try to stay sane....

 

[LaurS]

Remember to pre-condition the battery pack. I see 40 kW on cold battery and 90 kW (peak rate for my ancient Classic 2013 S85) when battery has been sufficiently warmed. I use Bjorn Nylands technique, namely, accelerate full for 5 seconds, regenerate for 6 seconds, repeat for 60 seconds. This rules out charging on "cold" battery pack, ie, pack temperature lower than 28 C degrees.

What temperature is warm enough to get 90kW? Yesterday I started at 43% 88F battery temperature with 40kW. The charge rate slowly dropped to 30kW as the battery temperature went up to 93F and 57% charge. I just gave up, 30kW for a 73.5kWh battery is ridiculous.

 

[dark cloud]

What temperature is warm enough to get 90kW? Yesterday I started at 43% 88F battery temperature with 40kW. The charge rate slowly dropped to 30kW as the battery temperature went up to 93F and 57% charge. I just gave up, 30kW for a 73.5kWh battery is ridiculous.

I am hearing you, it takes time to charge a car on the road at that rate, when some of us are used to 130 kW, but perspective: what would it cost you to put a 125 amp charging service at your home?

 

[LaurS]

I am hearing you, it takes time to charge a car on the road at that rate, when some of us are used to 130 kW, but perspective: what would it cost you to put a 125 amp charging service at your home?

It is not the same, at home time is not an issue. I have dual chargers, 80A HPWC, and it will cost me a couple hundred bucks to update the electrical circuit from 50A to 100A. I am fine with charging at 10kW since I do not need more that.

 

[LaurS]

Is there a tread for "chargegate" only? I found a very long tread on range reduction through software, but it does not seem to cover the supercharging speed reduction. As far as I can tell I do not have big drop in range. I usually charge at 70% and I see 175-177 miles rated range. (Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software)

 

[Droschke]

Is there a tread for "chargegate" only? I found a very long tread on range reduction through software, but it does not seem to cover the supercharging speed reduction. As far as I can tell I do not have big drop in range. I usually charge at 70% and I see 175-177 miles rated range. (Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software)

The "Sudden Loss ..." thread started as the Batterygate only. In few months, the thread started to cover the Chargegate issues as well. Some owners believe both issues are somewhat interrelated as to the root cause.

 

[LaurS]

My bad. I searched "superchargers" in that tread and the latest posts were about what is an "urban supercharger". I should have gone back further.

 

[dark cloud]

My bad. I searched "superchargers" in that tread and the latest posts were about what is an "urban supercharger". I should have gone back further.

The keyword is "throttle". This thread has links to others in the 3rd post.

 

[K-billy]

Lucky you!
How is the charging rate of this one at the Supercharger?

I supercharged the 85 kWh 350 V battery for the first time today. No one but me was charging, and I think the battery was sufficiently warmed up. The outside tmperature was 15 degrees Celsius (59 degrees Fahrenheit).

9 % - 57 kW
10 % - 68 kW
11 % - 72 kW
12 % - 82 kW
13 % - 85 kW
14 % - 104 kW
15-18 % - 116 kW
19-21 % - 111 kW
22 % - 108 kW
23 % - 107 kW
24 % - 106 kW
25-26 % - 105 kW
27-31 % - 103 kW
32-40 % - 100 kW
41-44 % - 99 kW
45 % - 98 kW
46-47 % - 95 kW
48 % - 91 kW
49-50 % - 89 kW
51 % - 86 kW
52 % - 84 kW
53-54 % - 82 kW
55 % - 80 kW
56 % - 78 kW
57 % - 77 kW
58 % - 76 kW
59-60 % - 74 kW
61 % - 72 kW
62-63 % - 70 kW
64-66 % - 69 kW
67 % - 67 kW
68-70 % - 66 kW
71 % - 65 kW
72 % - 63 kW
73 % - 60 kW
74% - 58 kW
75 % - 56 kW
76 % - 54 kW
77 % - 52 kW
78 % - 50 kW
79 % - 48 kW
80 % - 45 kW
81 % - 42 kW
82 % - 40 kW