New battery option 70D, is 105D next?

[Red Sage]

Hmmm... 'Initial'. As in, if you want a Model X Signature, with the 70 kWh battery pack, be prepared to wait until February 2016 for delivery. If you instead want your Model X Signature with the 85 kWh battery pack (or higher), you just may have it before Christmas 2015.

Methinks... 70 kWh (200 miles), 85 kWh (240 miles), and 120 kWh (300 miles)... Maybe.

 

[Paul Carter]

Hmmm... 'Initial'. As in, if you want a Model X Signature, with the 70 kWh battery pack, be prepared to wait until February 2016 for delivery. If you instead want your Model X Signature with the 85 kWh battery pack (or higher), you just may have it before Christmas 2015.

Methinks... 70 kWh (200 miles), 85 kWh (240 miles), and 120 kWh (300 miles)... Maybe.

I'd go for the 120 if it were available. The 60 is fine for my S, but if I were to do it again I'd go 85.

 

[ohmman]

I'd stick with the 85, as with my S. It's plenty of range for comfortable road tripping, at least from where I live in Norcal. Might feel differently if I lived in West Texas.

 

[Earlian]

Took this from the Model S Thread, where they talk about April,30 announcement.

(stevej119) I believe you are correct. They will make the announcement when the update is available to order, whatever it is. A bigger batter is coming. The question is when. To me it seems likely that Model X reveal will be when we'll see a bigger battery. As I said before, quoting many who said it before me, it doesn't seem likely that the X will be released with a lower mileage cap than the current S.

People can talk about why they would or wouldn't come out with a new battery soon because the P85D this or the P85D that, but it's not about the P85D. It's about the Model X. That's what will drive the introduction of a larger battery. IMHO, of course.

Seems the bigger capacity will come from the start, because of that reason.
Makes no sense, to introduce, the worlds first SUV-EV and then come with lower range.

Speaking of that, can anyone imagine, what performance that 100kwh+ ModelX will give us?

They schould search for a new Mode-Name. "Insane" won't last for long, especially, when they also give it to the S.

 

[Gerasimental]

Took this from the Model S Thread, where they talk about April,30 announcement.



Seems the bigger capacity will come from the start, because of that reason.
Makes no sense, to introduce, the worlds first SUV-EV and then come with lower range.

Speaking of that, can anyone imagine, what performance that 100kwh+ ModelX will give us?

They schould search for a new Mode-Name. "Insane" won't last for long, especially, when they also give it to the S.

Why would a higher capacity battery give better performance? If it uses the same motors as Model S, it will have the same power. However the car itself will be heavier than Model S and a 100kWh battery back is heavier than an 85kWh one. Same power, more weight = less speed.
Still, even an SUV doing 0-60 in 3.5s would be 'Insane' and it'll be hilarious to watch it out accelerate purpose-built high performance sports cars.

 

[Kevin Harney]

Why would a higher capacity battery give better performance? If it uses the same motors as Model S, it will have the same power. However the car itself will be heavier than Model S and a 100kWh battery back is heavier than an 85kWh one. Same power, more weight = less speed.
Still, even an SUV doing 0-60 in 3.5s would be 'Insane' and it'll be hilarious to watch it out accelerate purpose-built high performance sports cars.

I am no expert but here is my basic understanding of it. A larger battery can be charged and discharged faster because the C rate is lower. Discharging faster yields more power. Like I said not technical.

 

[brianman]

Hmmm... 'Initial'. As in, if you want a Model X Signature, with the 70 kWh battery pack, be prepared to wait until February 2016 for delivery. If you instead want your Model X Signature with the 85 kWh battery pack (or higher), you just may have it before Christmas 2015.

Methinks... 70 kWh (200 miles), 85 kWh (240 miles), and 120 kWh (300 miles)... Maybe.

If they follow the Model S pattern, you won't have the option to get anything but the highest battery capacity flavor for Signature.

 

[WarpedOne]

Why would a higher capacity battery give better performance?

Bateries 101: Two cells provide twice the power of single cell. Same applies to one cell with higher capacity.
There are caveats that can bend this general rule but in general it still holds true.

P85D is limited by maximum discharge power around 415kW. 415/85 = ~4,8C.
4,8C in 100kWh battery gives 480kW. Motors alone are capable of over 500kW.

 

[Gary and Rachel]

Yes, if I could select 120kwh battery, I'd do it. Done, it's that simple.

 

[Incredulocious]

Yes, if I could select 120kwh battery, I'd do it. Done, it's that simple.

Yes, same here. Road trips for me are often to remote locations (even in California) where there is no charging available (including 120V) and too far away from the nearest DC fast charging. Looking forward to greater than 300 mile range (plus further build out of fast charging stations) and getting rid of any need for a gas-burner!

 

[Gary and Rachel]

The Model X will not be used as a in town drop off for the kids car. We will not be using 7 full size people either. Most of the time only two will be regular driver, riders. At times another couple for going to dinner or day to two day road trips off the main routes. The extra battery capacity will be needed because SC'ers will not be as abundant using back roads. Destination chargers will be more likely. I am a bit concerned that the X is shorter on range already than the S and I would really want a 300+ to 325 mile range X to match what we are doing in our Lincoln Navigator. We are retired and we are already doing this kind of driving, we just want to switch cars. If I drive my F-150 and drive curse control at 55 mph I am getting 700 to 765 miles per tank. An option to remove the 3rd row seats and have more kWh's and luggage space I'll be driving the perfect car. Also this car is going to be about right for my mid 60's by having assested or auto pilot to help back us up and help to make our driving a safer experience. The timing is perfect and very well could be my last car.

I'm just going public on voting for the higher power pack. More mileage equals more back road options.

Thanks for letting me rant.

G & R

 

[scottf200]

The Model X will not be used as a in town drop off for the kids car. We will not be using 7 full size people either. Most of the time only two will be regular driver, riders. At times another couple for going to dinner or day to two day road trips off the main routes. The extra battery capacity will be needed because SC'ers will not be as abundant using back roads. Destination chargers will be more likely. I am a bit concerned that the X is shorter on range already than the S and I would really want a 300+ to 325 mile range X to match what we are doing in our Lincoln Navigator. We are retired and we are already doing this kind of driving, we just want to switch cars. If I drive my F-150 and drive curse control at 55 mph I am getting 700 to 765 miles per tank. An option to remove the 3rd row seats and have more kWh's and luggage space I'll be driving the perfect car. Also this car is going to be about right for my mid 60's by having assested or auto pilot to help back us up and help to make our driving a safer experience. The timing is perfect and very well could be my last car.

I'm just going public on voting for the higher power pack. More mileage equals more back road options.

Thanks for letting me rant.

G & R

Rant away. I would select in that option in a heartbeat as well. I want to travel off the SuperCharger "railroad" in any state.

 

[adiggs]

I'm in the more is better camp also, not that my vote really counts much one way or the other regarding availability.

Two thoughts I have about the bigger battery - one of them is getting me thinking about whether to carry through on the Signature reservation or not.

The first thought is how you'd feel if you got an 85, and <x> time later, the 105 or other bigger battery option for Model X was announced - would that bother you badly? I realize that technology moves fast and that I need to buy the vehicle that I'll be happy with, whatever and however the technology changes the next day. For me, a bigger battery in the next year or 2 when I think they are going to be arriving quite soon - that will bother me. Thus the thought that I let somebody else get into the Signature queue, and I slide down the line waiting for the bigger battery (and yes - realizing that could turn a 2 and a half year wait into a 4 year wait - a Roadster is very nice for staving off the pain).

The second thought is an observation I got from somebody that works at the Portland showroom. She was out doing a test drive with somebody in a 60 DURING the sales conference call when they were told about the 70D and discontinuance of the 60. She missed the call because of the test drive. When she got back, she was told about the product line up change, and oh-by-the-way - there's the new 70D test drive car, the 60 is outta here. She expects any Model X test drive vehicles and similar product changes to happen in that same fashion - they won't exist, until whatever is being replaced doesn't exist.


I expect that is what will happen with the bigger battery. I sort of expect it won't happen in 2015 unless it happens in time for Signature Model X's to order the bigger pack, so passing on the Signature reservation will push me out to at least 2016 for a Model X.

 

[Gary and Rachel]

I'm in the more is better camp also, not that my vote really counts much one way or the other regarding availability.

Two thoughts I have about the bigger battery - one of them is getting me thinking about whether to carry through on the Signature reservation or not.

The first thought is how you'd feel if you got an 85, and <x> time later, the 105 or other bigger battery option for Model X was announced - would that bother you badly? I realize that technology moves fast and that I need to buy the vehicle that I'll be happy with, whatever and however the technology changes the next day. For me, a bigger battery in the next year or 2 when I think they are going to be arriving quite soon - that will bother me. Thus the thought that I let somebody else get into the Signature queue, and I slide down the line waiting for the bigger battery (and yes - realizing that could turn a 2 and a half year wait into a 4 year wait - a Roadster is very nice for staving off the pain).

I don't want to share my idea/plan to change your mind. Non of us knows how things will roll out. I was never a guy who would stand in a line for three days to get a new phone. With that said. I have been waiting almost 10 years for a Tesla. In 2005 I loved what I saw in the S. I passed on being the first trusting that things would go well and I would catch one a bit later. This did two things for me. It gave me time to hear about the X and also I saw the P and D happen. I was glad I waited. Now I was at San Jose the night they first showed the X. I knew I had found MY car. I think that was 2008 or 9. So what I learned from the S observation I wanted to put into buying the X.

Elon is promising that this will be a special car over the prototype and from the launch it already is. Two motors, auto pilot, performance, etc. But when I read the expected range I knew that was a bit short for me and if I see it I am sure Tesla sees that. But now they have a huge battery plant I think they can be a bit more liberal about spreading them around a bit I think.

I'm drifting off topic a bit but I only have a 5,000 investment at this point and I read on the website that placing an order today could be delivered around July I think. So I can live with that standing on my head in that it's only a smidgen off the ten year wait so far. I may have to hold off my order just a little longer for a longer range.

But if I already had an order and was so close to the front of the line as you and with 2 1/2 years only invested I would want one as soon as I could get one. On YouTube where I see videos of owners of the first S models I don't see them feeling like they ordered to soon, in fact I see someone who has over 100,000 miles and have enjoyed everyone of them. So why wait, I have different needs than most and if I had more money I would want to be like them. Having already driven over 100,000 miles and getting the X later next year.

Today my wife and I are planning on renting a P85D and going for a day or two to catch some of the fun while we wait. Good luck and I can't wait till I read how much fun driving your new Model X is.

Gary and Rachel

 

[favo]

Model S reveal was March 26, 2009. Model X reveal was February 9, 2012. "Objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than they appear?" :wink:

 

[Gary and Rachel]

Model S reveal was March 26, 2009. Model X reveal was February 9, 2012. "Objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than they appear?" :wink:

Wow, thx for the reboot my brain needed. Ever since I retired every day has been Saturday. I can now see how I have been fooling myself about not being effected by waiting. I felt I was typing a mistake but had no notes near me. Anyway my message stands, I'll take a bigger battery please.

 

[WarpedOne]

A bigger battery is almost a given.

Kimbal Musk in a recent interview stated Model X will have similar range to Model S.
I don't see how a bigger (frontal area) and heavier SUV can have similar efficiency as a sedan/hatch.
Efficiency will be lower hence similar range can only be attained with bigger battery. Battery will be ~15% higher, and efficiency will be %10 to %15 lower canceling each other out.

At later time that battery will come to Model S as another big event, taking EPA number over 300.

 

[CyberDutchie]

Probably already suggested by someone (and perhaps rebunked) but I'd like to see Tesla offer the possibility to load backup battery packs, like the Powerwall, into the trunk to extend the range when going on road trips. Getting rid of the third row seats would make space for two or three Powerwalls, adding up to 30kWh of backup power for about 100 miles extra range. The extra weight of the packs in the order of 200lbs per pack, not that more than that of an adult siting in the rear.

 

[vandacca]

Probably already suggested by someone (and perhaps rebunked) but I'd like to see Tesla offer the possibility to load backup battery packs, like the Powerwall, into the trunk to extend the range when going on road trips. Getting rid of the third row seats would make space for two or three Powerwalls, adding up to 30kWh of backup power for about 100 miles extra range. The extra weight of the packs in the order of 200lbs per pack, not that more than that of an adult siting in the rear.

I can't imagine this happening, due to engineering challenges. The packs have to be temperature controlled (heating/cooling), have to be designed to withstand various impacts and have to be designed to protect passengers from a run-away reaction. It is not a trivial matter to add more battery modules, and if you include all the supporting infrastructure, the actual weight of the battery pack would be significant, which has an adverse effect on range. Its usually best to keep the design as simple as possible.

 

[WarpedOne]

And there is additional problem of balancing both packs. If onboard battery had lower voltage (lower SOC) it would drain the AddOn batteries or vice-versa. There would need to be a balancing device that would limit this surge current not to damage the batteries.