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New California car pool laws?

HermosaRyan

Member
Oct 13, 2014
12
8
Hermosa Beach, CA
I bought my model S back in 2014 and was given white HOV stickers that were good until January 1, 2019.

Apparently California is now issuing red stickers that are also good until the same date. But at the end of this year, all stickers will need to be replaced with what I believe will be a yet to be determined color. If you were issued stickers in 2017 and 2018 they will apparently give you the new sticker, but my understanding is my Tesla will no longer be able to be eligible to travel in the HOV lane without multiple people in the car.

Am I understanding that correctly? If it is true that is going to be hard to get used to, it was one of my favorite perks about driving this car. I love it otherwise, it's so fun, but this would be a major bummer.
 

tonyquan

Member
Aug 12, 2016
36
68
California
I bought my model S back in 2014 and was given white HOV stickers that were good until January 1, 2019.

Apparently California is now issuing red stickers that are also good until the same date. But at the end of this year, all stickers will need to be replaced with what I believe will be a yet to be determined color. If you were issued stickers in 2017 and 2018 they will apparently give you the new sticker, but my understanding is my Tesla will no longer be able to be eligible to travel in the HOV lane without multiple people in the car.

Am I understanding that correctly? If it is true that is going to be hard to get used to, it was one of my favorite perks about driving this car. I love it otherwise, it's so fun, but this would be a major bummer.

Your understanding of the program is correct. Check the DMV website https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/decal

It says quite clearly:

22. Q: My vehicle was eligible and issued clean air decals prior to January 1, 2017; can I apply for new decals after January 1, 2019, when my white or green decal expires?

A: No. Under the new CAV program, vehicles that were issued CAV decals prior to January 1, 2017, are no longer eligible to receive new decals after January 1, 2019, (California Vehicle Code 5205.5).

Effectively, under the new program everyone (no matter when they bought their car, even cars bought in the past) gets between three and four years of HOV lane access as a solo driver. The main driver of this as I understand is California is no longer in compliance with federal rules about how many cars are using the HOV lane.
 
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tonyquan

Member
Aug 12, 2016
36
68
California
That really stinks. I mean, the car has zero emissions and that was the whole point of HOV lanes, right? Get people to share a ride to reduce emissions.

Understood. However if the HOV lane is bumper to bumper traffic (which I've seen more and more often in the SF Bay Area), there's no incentive for anyone to take actions to be eligible to use that lane.
 
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dipper

Member
Nov 4, 2017
295
179
92129
Wonder if EV adoption in LA County is going to suck soon? They just band any plugin cars starting end of the year from using express lane with HOV stickers of any kind.
 

edlin303

Member
Jan 29, 2018
103
110
San Diego
I bought my model S back in 2014 and was given white HOV stickers that were good until January 1, 2019.

Apparently California is now issuing red stickers that are also good until the same date. But at the end of this year, all stickers will need to be replaced with what I believe will be a yet to be determined color. If you were issued stickers in 2017 and 2018 they will apparently give you the new sticker, but my understanding is my Tesla will no longer be able to be eligible to travel in the HOV lane without multiple people in the car.

Am I understanding that correctly? If it is true that is going to be hard to get used to, it was one of my favorite perks about driving this car. I love it otherwise, it's so fun, but this would be a major bummer.

Since their focus is all around if the car has had CA stickers before or not, I foresee lots of CA/AZ/NV cross-border car swaps and/or buying/selling. Your car will have diminished value in CA for resale because the buyer can't get new stickers, but in AZ it still will be worth the same. Similarly, if you buy a used car from AZ, you can bring it to CA and get new stickers I believe. Maybe someone can set up a swap-a-tesla site for owners to swap between states. Obviously the CA owners will need to sweeten the pot to motivate AZ owners, but the market will sort out what incentive is necessary.
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
That really stinks. I mean, the car has zero emissions and that was the whole point of HOV lanes, right? Get people to share a ride to reduce emissions.

Originally it was to reduce traffic congestion, imported fuel demand, and smog emissions. This was before CO2 was considered a smog emission. A vanpool with 15 people, took 14 cars off the road. A rideshare with 4 people took 3 cars off the road. If it had worked, it would have reduced congestion and smog significantly. On paper that is. Whether it had a true positive effect on smog will never be known since the fleet economy improves over time. Would just more lanes on the freeway have cleaned the air better? Probably.

Much like the Handicap Parking concept, HOV lanes did not allow for human nature.

Now HOV lanes are being turned into toll roads one by one. This actually increases all emissions by forcing commuters in ICE vehicles to consume more fuel per mile, but collects a higher percentage of worker income in taxes. If you follow California green policies, it was an obvious progression of events. Beaks must stay wet. When they talk about 'green' in Calif, they mean portraits of Presidents, not necessary ecology. Since much of the California's housing is in coastal deserts, the term 'green' should have warned you. We are brown, forests are green.
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,873
6,490
Silicon Valley
Originally it was to reduce traffic congestion, imported fuel demand, and smog emissions. This was before CO2 was considered a smog emission. A vanpool with 15 people, took 14 cars off the road. A rideshare with 4 people took 3 cars off the road. If it had worked, it would have reduced congestion and smog significantly. On paper that is. Whether it had a true positive effect on smog will never be known since the fleet economy improves over time. Would just more lanes on the freeway have cleaned the air better? Probably.

Much like the Handicap Parking concept, HOV lanes did not allow for human nature.

Now HOV lanes are being turned into toll roads one by one. This actually increases all emissions by forcing commuters in ICE vehicles to consume more fuel per mile, but collects a higher percentage of worker income in taxes. If you follow California green policies, it was an obvious progression of events. Beaks must stay wet. When they talk about 'green' in Calif, they mean portraits of Presidents, not necessary ecology. Since much of the California's housing is in coastal deserts, the term 'green' should have warned you. We are brown, forests are green.
The truth about California! :cool:
 
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David99

Active Member
Jan 31, 2014
4,850
7,027
Brea, Orange County
I agree that kicking EVs out of the HOV is counter to what the idea of HOV. The idea was to reduce traffic and pollution by encouraging people to car pool. With the number of EVs on the road in CA now I see that driving solo will cause too much traffic in the HOVs. At the same time, a solo driver in the HOV causes less pollution than two people in an ICE car. But it's not only about pollution, it's also about traffic.

I think ICE cars should require 3 or more, EVs 2 or more. Lyft, Uber, Taxi and similar should be fine with 2 per car. Those transport many people over the course of a day with only a single car on the road. It's an efficient transportation.
 
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ForeverFree

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jul 9, 2015
606
1,364
Sherman Oaks, CA
Idea was to induce people to invest the $$,$$$ to bring a new EV onto CA roads. Every time you do so, you get a multi-year HOV solo pass.

Seems a fair bargain.
 
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edlin303

Member
Jan 29, 2018
103
110
San Diego
Lyft, Uber, Taxi and similar should be fine with 2 per car. Those transport many people over the course of a day with only a single car on the road. It's an efficient transportation.
I definitely have to disagree on that one. A typical driver driving to work 10 miles drives 10 miles to work and 10 miles from, or 20mi/pp per day.

A Taxi/uber/lift taking that same person uses 20mi/pp per day at an absolute minimum, since you can't include the driver in the equasion. He had no plan to go there, so you can't count him as reducing miles driven pp. But even worse, those services are not 100% efficient. If that driver drives 10m one way, he'll eventually have to drive 10m back to get home, and at least some part of that will be without a fare. Same for picking up each person. So for each ride, the commuter generates emissions for 10+n miles each way per person.

Even worse, that taxi is almost certainly not an EV, so it is almost guaranteed to be burning fuel. The commuter could have used an EV and not burned any fuel.

I think more realistic if they are trying to be true to reducing emissions would be 3+ to count as hov in an ICE, the same for taxis (2+ passengers), and 1+ for pure EV (exclude plug-in hybrids which probably are just burning fuel most of the time anyway with such short ev range.

Or, they could just remove the ability to pay a toll to travel as a single, but that is very unlikely to happen because it's such a profit center. But single-occupancy cars paying tolls are second only to taxis in being counter-productive to reducing emissions using the lanes in my opinion.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,903
13,044
California
Am I understanding that correctly? If it is true that is going to be hard to get used to, it was one of my favorite perks about driving this car. I love it otherwise, it's so fun, but this would be a major bummer.

The stickers were always set to expire for you in 2019. From your perspective nothing about the deal has changed. This aspect of the program has been around for quite some time - just ask the hybrid owners with the yellow stickers.

It was never intended to be a perpetual benefit.
 
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HermosaRyan

Member
Oct 13, 2014
12
8
Hermosa Beach, CA
The stickers were always set to expire for you in 2019. From your perspective nothing about the deal has changed. This aspect of the program has been around for quite some time - just ask the hybrid owners with the yellow stickers.

It was never intended to be a perpetual benefit.

If I recall, the original deal was getting those benefits until 2017 and they extended them until 2019. The talk was that as long as you had an EV they would continue to extend it. Obviously it was no guarantee but that was what I was hearing. Obviously there are a lot more EV cars on the road now and that supposed plan has changed.
 
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suraj1194

Member
Jul 19, 2016
339
339
Bay Area CA
I'm one of those impacted by the rule changes. I don't mind that the stickers expire. But I wish the policy had consistency so that one could actually grasp what the policy is. A simple one would have been that yellow stickers (hybrids) expire one year once adoption levels reach a threshold, then green stickers (plugin hybrids) expire a later year once another adoption threshold is reached, and finally white stickers for BEVs expire when pure EV registration reach a point.

But no , they now have a convoluted system where registration date for sticker matters as well. The guy who finished off his chores in late Dec 2016 to get his white sticker only has 2 years of use. Some who did so a day later in Jan 2017 has - hey presto, an additional three years.

I'm a summer 2016 registrant who expected this to end 2019, and it does. It's just silly that it also ends for those who registered up to 6 months later ,but not for those who registered at least one more day after that.

One could argue about the original intent of the stickers (yellow, green or white) - whether its for carpooling, ridesharing, emissions curtailment incentive, EV adoption or a combination of them. Now there's one more intent to muddy things - new EV sales; they've thrown the pre-2017 white sticker registrants collectively under the bus by giving those who registered Jan 1 2017 and later, an additional 3 years.
 
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Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
6,879
Canyon Lake,CA
They have given so much free access to the HOV lanes that it has perverted it's intent.

First needed 3 to qualify, now only two. Motorcycles (that pollute more than cars) are OK. Hybrids are OK, Ambulance OK, Cops OK, EV's OK, Luxury Tesla OK.

Now the HOV (Previously Car Pool) lanes are as congested as the others, and the promised faster travel speeds are clogging to a creep.

Believe the obvious answer to the politicians, will be to cut out all the free stuff, and turn the HOV lanes into Toll lanes.

Every group will pay a different fee. Higher fees when they get more congested will assure quickly flowing traffic, at least to those who pay the price.
 

SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,178
9,905
SF Bay Area
A good thing will be that ugly stickers on the cars are gone. However turning current HOV lanes into pay lanes will be attacked as rich folk lanes and I can understand that. I know we need money for our highways and we would have had more of it to use if they hadn't kept withdrawing monies voted on for highways and put into the General till for using however they saw fit.
 

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