New California EV tax

[omgwtfbyobbq]

I agree that these people will have increased costs. But they are not "the poor". They have jobs.
Also, maybe the reason they are commuting such long distances and wasting all that gas is because gas is too cheap. Might be time to find a job closer to home or get a more fuel efficient car which pollutes less.

They're likely lower working class/working poor. I wouldn't make assumptions about how easy it is to find a reliable/affordable fuel efficient car with limited resources either. Moving out of poverty takes a lot in terms of time, effort, and obviously money, which is consistently siphoned off by all sorts of morally (in my opinion) marginal actors because the poor don't have the resources to fight back effectively.

US law professor exposes system that makes a profit from poverty | Mary O’Hara

 

[RubberToe]

Good thing all those cheap Fiat 500e's are coming off leases soon. It's just a matter of time until these otherwise perfectly usable (for 80 miles anyway) compliance cars end up in the hands of people who will be more than happy to buy the electrons at the equivalent of $1.00 per "gallon" of gas equivalent. And if their commute is longer than 50% of their "tank", maybe their employer has an L2 charger so they can "fill up" while cleaning the house for an hour or two. People can be pretty resourceful when it comes to saving a buck, especially those who don't have many. I drive my EV for free now too, but it's more of a game for me than needing to save the money...

RT

 

[mspohr]

I just don't understand, there are huge taxes in CA as it stands. There are no real weather issues. Having come from upstate NY and then CT and MA, where they are dealing with snow removal, ice issues, salting, sanding of lots of roads. The question to ask is where is all the CA tax money going, because roads aren't great, and we really don't have any 'real' weather issues.

It always helps to have some real data before making wild accusations and generalizations.
Here's state spending on road maintenance:
Table 8: Maintenance Disbursements per State-Controlled Mile
1 New Mexico $3,231
2 North Dakota $5,692
3 South Dakota $6,458
4 Mississippi $7,029
5 South Carolina $7,474
6 Louisiana $7,739
7 West Virginia $8,532
8 North Carolina $10,072
9 Montana $11,115
10 Arkansas $11,633
11 Wyoming $11,998
12 Missouri $13,397
13 Kentucky $14,410
14 Kansas $14,662
15 Oklahoma $14,852
16 Nebraska $15,333
17 Georgia $15,361
18 Alabama $16,156
19 Wisconsin $18,094
20 New Hampshire* $19,906
21 Nevada $20,175
22 Iowa $20,452
23 Tennessee $20,620
24 Idaho $20,671
25 Ohio $21,711
26 Arizona $21,825
27 Maine** $24,327
28 Texas $24,846
29 Virginia $27,757
30 Alaska $28,470
31 Oregon $28,937
32 Connecticut $29,001
33 Michigan $29,869
34 Pennsylvania $34,978
35 Minnesota $37,529
36 Illinois $41,501
37 Washington $42,192
38 Vermont $45,831
39 Colorado $46,845
40 Indiana $62,485
41 Hawaii $63,482
42 Maryland $63,994
43 California $64,262
44 Florida $77,258
45 Massachusetts* $78,313
46 Utah $83,751
47 Rhode Island $86,014
48 New York** $91,853
49 Delaware $95,075
50 New Jersey $232,761
Weighted Average $25,996

Also, this reports shows that only about half of the money spent on roads comes from tolls, user fees and user taxes.
How Is Your State’s Road Spending Funded? (2016) - Tax Foundation
They make a good case for raising all kinds of road user fees and user taxes.

 

[Branzo90D]

@dmode said, "Of course, roads above 6000 ft. are shot because of record snowfall. But that's nothing new and happens most years. In flat areas, roads are mostly fine IMO. Here's a street view of I-80 near Davis from Feb 2017. Perfect condition and lane striping."

Have you checked the I-880 through Oakland recently? Condition is so poor that the road is breaking down and stones are being thrown up into traffic. Last time I went through there, I got a lovely star crack in my windshield. Fortunately, it could be repaired and did not need replacement. Just an example of the terrible road condition in a state which has "great weather." We have delayed reconstruction and maintenance for so long the bill is way past due.

 

[Merrill]

I have a different view of this issue in California, the money for road repair is not earmarked for repair and maintenance it goes into a general fund. As I have said before they have lots of money but it is being used for other projects. Have you ever seen the road maintenance crews working, 3 guys watching and 1 working. On my county road they just throw asphalt in the potholes and move on, since they do not compact the asphalt the cars do that and it never lasts one winter. How about do it correctly the first time and not have to do it over and over again, of course that would mean these employees would be out of a job.

 

[mspohr]

I have a different view of this issue in California, the money for road repair is not earmarked for repair and maintenance it goes into a general fund. As I have said before they have lots of money but it is being used for other projects. Have you ever seen the road maintenance crews working, 3 guys watching and 1 working. On my county road they just throw asphalt in the potholes and move on, since they do not compact the asphalt the cars do that and it never lasts one winter. How about do it correctly the first time and not have to do it over and over again, of course that would mean these employees would be out of a job.

All of the money that is collected in California for road maintenance is spent on road maintenance. Since this only covers about 50% of the budget, additional money is allocated from the general fund.
We need higher road taxes and fees so that the general fund doesn't have to subsidize road maintenance.

 

[dmode]

I have a different view of this issue in California, the money for road repair is not earmarked for repair and maintenance it goes into a general fund. As I have said before they have lots of money but it is being used for other projects. Have you ever seen the road maintenance crews working, 3 guys watching and 1 working. On my county road they just throw asphalt in the potholes and move on, since they do not compact the asphalt the cars do that and it never lasts one winter. How about do it correctly the first time and not have to do it over and over again, of course that would mean these employees would be out of a job.

I have already covered this in my post, Bay Area has terrible pavement condition. But the moment you step outside surface conditions get much better. Over the last 12 months, I have driven all over the state, including entire stretch of I-5 from Shasta to San Diego, 15 to Vegas, US395, 80, US 50, 101 to Oxnard, 101 to Healdsberg, 10 to Blythe. Vast majorities of these roads are in good condition. You can verify by viewing them on Google Street view. Even remote roads like Whitney portal is freshly paved. I don't know why the indifference towards Bay Area roads. My guess is they just want to create construction jobs in rural areas and that's why they prioritize it.

Here are some random street views

I-40 Google Maps

I-15 Google Maps

I-10 Google Maps

 

[Blup85]

Working for small local agency, I can honestly say this will make real differences for a local agencies, in our case about 3.7 million for my agency. (And when reversed calculated to gas paying customers in my City, about $100 per household increase). Bottom line is, gas tax revenues have been shrinking, but we are building more roads (efficiency, and EVs) and no way to pay for them. Even with the new ev flat fee, EVs are still getting a huge break, they are not even being taxed the same rate as a comparable ice car, just the new .12 difference! As a local agency, I don't build roads for cars. I build roads for semi trucks and commercial vehicles, so the higher fees for diesel absolutly makes sense. If I built roads for just cars, they would cost 1/5 the price, they are really the only thing that's damaging our roads ( don't get me started on garbage trucks!)
I don't want to pay more in taxes any more than the next guy, but jeez with efficiency alone the cost per mile today, even with with the new tax increase has to be coparable to a lower efficient ice 20 years ago?
I shall pay my $100 fee happily.. I'm more pissed about the damn $150 fire "fee" in California for rural zones... everyone knows it was a illigitimate tax to pay firefighter overtime, and never went to a vote..

 

[bigdaddie]

All of the money that is collected in California for road maintenance is spent on road maintenance. Since this only covers about 50% of the budget, additional money is allocated from the general fund.
We need higher road taxes and fees so that the general fund doesn't have to subsidize road maintenance.

Are you "F"ing kidding me?! We don't need ANY more taxes in California. We need less Liberals who spend the money like water. And yes, we need more water.

 

[Merrill]

California says they collect 1.6 billion for road repairs annually, but have 3.6 billion needed and a 12 billion back log. Why has this happened, because with more efficient cars are buying less gas. This is true to some extent but not this much, where is the money going and maybe Cal Trans needs some reworking.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Are you "F"ing kidding me?! We don't need ANY more taxes in California. We need less Liberals who spend the money like water. And yes, we need more water.

I agree. We need dedicated fees to make up the shortfall in road maintenance and are proportional to the costs of different vehicles (eg HDVs should pay more than they currently do and LDVs should pay less).

 

[Sparky]

California says they collect 1.6 billion for road repairs annually, but have 3.6 billion needed and a 12 billion back log. Why has this happened, because with more efficient cars are buying less gas. This is true to some extent but not this much, where is the money going and maybe Cal Trans needs some reworking.

Close. This article says it's about $2.6B spent and $8B needed. I thought it gave some historical perspective going back to Gov. Brown's first term. Maybe that shortfall is why your potholes just get filled with asphalt instead of being properly repaired.
From the story: “The red line, $8 billion going to $9.2 billion — that is the [annual] needs. Here’s what we’re spending, down here at $2.5 billion. That’s a gap. What I’m telling you is whether you’re a Republican or Democrat, or a man or a woman, that gap is real … a huge gap that is getting bigger. It’s a very simple proposition. Pay now or pay later — and pay a hell of a lot more.”

I'm ok with the new EV fee but I'd like it to be more thoughtfully calculated. I'm sure my Model S, 2100 kg and 42PSI tires does much more damage per mile than my Nissan LEAF. But when the fees are:
1) Noticeable (> $20/yr)
2) Ham-fisted and ill-suited to appropriately direct $ where it's needed.
3) Not clearly (in the minds of the voters) being applied as intended.

It can become a political fulcrum for "populist" campaigns and mindless referendums. Did that once with A. Schwarzenegger. Didn't help anything.

 

[mspohr]

Are you "F"ing kidding me?! We don't need ANY more taxes in California. We need less Liberals who spend the money like water. And yes, we need more water.

I understand your rage but it would help if you based your argument on fact, not emotion.

 

[AB4EJ]

The Hidden Trucking Industry Subsidy

Thanks for the most interesting link; although the article doesn't really address a key point: the interstate system was started by the Eisenhower administration (which I, gulp, remember) for the purpose of more efficiently moving war materiel around the country. Its original mission (at least according to the visionaries who thought of it) was not really to enable cross-country car traffic.So one might argue that whatever the government (mostly federal) spends to maintain the interstates is aimed at commercial traffic in the first place. The funding for interstate roads seems to be quite convoluted... the US DOT provides funding for states, who kick in some of their own funds (presumably coming from fuel and road use taxes (IFTA/IRP))... so it is at least partially a local decision on how to fund or not fund interstate road work.

Sorry, I may be getting off the topic of the original post, which raises a persistent question about EV road taxes. I am willing to pay a reasonable amount on my registration of my EV toward road maintenance (I calculated a fee of between $120 to $160 per year should be about right for my state). As other postings have lamented... it is true that the state can take that money and mismanage it. I am lucky to live in a state which actually tries very hard to do good road maintenance.This is not the case everywhere.

 

[hmmm]

Also, maybe the reason they are commuting such long distances and wasting all that gas is because gas is too cheap. Might be time to find a job closer to home or get a more fuel efficient car which pollutes less.

That sounds very condescending from the other side of my screen. How about they can't afford to leave closer to their job/there are limited jobs where they leave/public transportation is non existent? Fair point re smaller cars/engines though.

 

[mspohr]

That sounds very condescending from the other side of my screen. How about they can't afford to leave closer to their job/there are limited jobs where they leave/public transportation is non existent? Fair point re smaller cars/engines though.

Sorry if I came across as condescending. My point is that since gas is so cheap, people don't think about wasting it. If if was more expensive, people would think twice about buying a large pickup or SUV and driving long distances to work.

 

[BrokerDon]

Is any of this transportation tax increase going to prop up funding for "The Bullet Train To Nowhere"?

Bullet Train to Nowhere

 

[cpa]

I just don't understand, there are huge taxes in CA as it stands. There are no real weather issues. Having come from upstate NY and then CT and MA, where they are dealing with snow removal, ice issues, salting, sanding of lots of roads. The question to ask is where is all the CA tax money going, because roads aren't great, and we really don't have any 'real' weather issues.

Larmor, was this written tongue-in-cheek? I cannot believe that you actually believe that we have no real weather issues! How often does upstate NY, CT and MA have 110-degree days, and for how long? How many locations in those states experience those winter temperatures with snow removal, ice issues, salting, and sanding to be followed by four months of continual 95-degree days in the summer? Freezing and thawing are not the only weather-related issues that affect road surfaces. How many of these weather-related issues does New England experience: Extreme heat for 5-6 months; sixty-plus inches of rain over a six-month period; mudslides; slip outs; swollen creeks and rivers that erode buttresses and destroy culverts; boulders and fallen trees that slide down mountain slopes and rest upon the roadways; flooding; I am sure there are others.

I would also guess that your previous residences do not receive near the truck traffic that almost the entire state of California receives. Where I live, from May through February the trucks hauling agricultural products from farm to packing house or processor sometimes outnumber the long-haul truckers. Most arterial roads in rural areas have ruts in the asphalt at the limit lines from these trucks laden with fresh nuts, fruits and vegetables.

Anyway, I know nothing about the science and engineering for highways and roads. I guess that California does much of its road repair and maintenance on the cheap. They would rather spend less money and fashion a 5-10 year fix than spend more money and do the road work with better materials and better engineering that could last 20 years or more. Just my opinion.

 

[larmor]

Well for my part in Boston and Cambridge for two years, there were huge potholes, i don't mean the cosmetic dimples here in la and orange county. From upstate NY, we dealt with snow from november through april, and only once in my lifetime was the thruway closed for snow, since there were huge salt barns and trucks on the wait for snow removal. We rarely had continual 95 plus days, i can assure anyone of this. But we had continual 40 to 20 degree days followed by 50 degree days, and then back down to 40s-- often cycling. For CT: why did they use sand? Please help me understand. And for CT, any highway is fair game for trucks.