TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

New Cars DO NOT have AP3 (Hardware3!)

Discussion in 'Model 3: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by rkg114, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    6,366
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    It's uncleared to me whether you already paid for FSD or not.

    If you did, you will get a computer swap to HW3 if it was less than HW3.

    If you did not pay for FSD, the computer swap for no additional fee is not guaranteed.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  2. Bleu

    Bleu Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I'm a bit confused by the fixation with HW 3.0. It does literally nothing right now and it's been assured as a free retrofit when it is needed. Granted, that process might be a bit sloppy but I have a lot bigger worries today. If FSD makes meaningful progress and I get the runaround for weeks and months on end on getting the HW needed to enjoy new features that I paid for (which I haven't yet, but will almost certainly at some point), then I might allow it to trouble my mind./
     
    • Like x 2
  3. rkg114

    rkg114 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Yes I did pay for FSD.

    It's just there is nothing binding being signed at time of delivery which states I'll be upgraded to HW3 when time comes.

    It's just Elon on twitter and conference calls, all of which are not binding.

    He could just saw he's changed his mind and we'd all be stuck at 2.5
     
  4. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    5,569
    Location:
    NC

    I'm not sure why you don't think explicit material promises made in public by the company and its CEO aren't binding.

    Also when you order FSD that order page explicitly states you get the FSD computer as well. Which would also be binding.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
    • Funny x 1
  5. rkg114

    rkg114 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Where does it say FSD = HW3/AP3

    I don't see that anywhere on the website
     
  6. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    6,366
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    You paid for FSD, you'll get FSD.

    Elon Musk said HW2.5 is not powerful enough for FSD, thus, the free computer swap if you already paid for FSD.

    So, in theory, if HW2.5 is powerful enough for FSD, then Tesla has no obligation to do a computer swap because as we all saw on the receipt, we paid for the function of FSD, not for a hardware.

    So, in practice, you'll get your HW3.0 sooner or later because you already paid for FSD.
     
    • Like x 2
  7. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,706
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA

    The downside is you may be jumping to the back of the line for the hardware update assuming Tesla does it properly by FSD order date. So there may be a longer period to wait while features are released when you could have just gotten the updated hardware right off the bat by waiting for the updated car. I would guess months wait, not weeks.

    Who knows how long it will take them to work through the backlog, but they have 2 years worth of FSD cars to do. I am assuming that is not an insignificant number. It has taken them years to run through the airbag recalls and they are still working those. Granted, that was a lot more cars, but still. I believe the spoiler rollout was also a giant mess that is still ongoing months later.

    Now, Tesla being Tesla, the rollout will probably be a huge mess and you may be able to get your car upgraded faster. Who knows. But I get people wanting to get a updated hardware car today vs dealing with it. I would too, and I have been waiting over a year for my FSD features.
     
  8. DirtyT3sla

    DirtyT3sla Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Holly
    Could you detail the return process? I'd love to hear what that was like. How long until you got a refund? Did they give you a hard time?
     
  9. rkg114

    rkg114 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    They didn't give a hard time at all for return, but I'm no where near receiving my refund, and it's been a month.

    I will have to pay the existing loan until they refund my bank, they will also have to refund my credit card the $2.5K

    It's a very slow process, they apparently have no intention but to take the full 8 weeks (managing cash flow clearly)
     
  10. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    6,366
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    In case you wondered why Elon said 2.5 is not powerful enough for FSD, just look how gigantic nVidia Drive Autopilot is in CES 2019 this year:


    [​IMG]

    It occupies almost the whole rear trunk!

    So when Elon said 2.5 is not powerful enough, trust him!

    You will get your HW3.0!
     
    • Informative x 3
    • Disagree x 1
  11. Troy

    Troy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,835
    Location:
    What does the driver's door frame label show for the month of manufacture? It is in MM/YY format.
     
  12. rkg114

    rkg114 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    I don't know--haven't picked up the new car yet. But Tesla Chat and the Sales and Services teams have all confirmed it's production date is 5/31
     
  13. Ad Astra

    Ad Astra Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Texas
    IMO it's not something to be overly concerned about (it's a minor issue and equally minor repair). It is also not something I would characterize as "pretty normal" (worked at Tesla for 7 yrs and I've only come across a handful of these issues myself). In any case, I do not think the presence of such an issue (and subsequent repair) should deter you from taking delivery on Tuesday :)
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  14. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    5,569
    Location:
    NC
    It makes no sense at all from a logistics perspective to do it that way.

    Upgrades will be constrained by service center/mobile tech bandwidth- so doing it strictly in "how early you bought FSD" would create insane bottlenecks.



    That said- since it makes no sense for logistics, Tesla might well do exactly that based on past history :)



    it's right on the page where you order FSD.

    Directly below the price box you check off it says:

    That's HW3 (and has specifically been the name used for HW3 for a while now)
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Sean1

    Sean1 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Everything I've read and everyone I've spoken to all lead to HW3 if you order FSD. If you have 2.5, upgrading the HW is part of the fee.


    I was able to verify which HW mine came with via live chat on Tesla's website.
     
  16. rkg114

    rkg114 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    nice, i do see that...however no legal document states FSD Computer means HW3- he could just say FSD Computer is also HW2.5

    Would be very bad PR....but the real risk is we never really get upgraded because he hedged it by saying only when it's fully ready, aka it may never be fully ready for upgrade..just will be on new cars





    it's right on the page where you order FSD.

    Directly below the price box you check off it says:



    That's HW3 (and has specifically been the name used for HW3 for a while now)[/QUOTE]
     
  17. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,706
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    Well, that is how they did the airbag recalls. Older cars first, then stepped forward by year. So who knows.
     
  18. Mansley

    Mansley Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yeah, I was thinking of getting this guarantee in writing at delivery considering how flaky Tesla can be committing to things in the future.
     
  19. jcasetnl

    jcasetnl Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    CA Bay Area
    So no HW3, 300 miles on the ODO and not willing to work with you on that, and now another issue that should have been caught way earlier in QC/Inspection.

    If I experienced even half this fiasco when picking up my $16k-out-the-door Sentra I would have walked from the deal.
     
  20. jcasetnl

    jcasetnl Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    CA Bay Area
    Another scenario to consider is if Tesla is chasing quarterly numbers as they have been, who will get priority: New cars going out the door or retrofits for customers' whose money they already have?
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC