New, cheaper Level 2 charger from Bosch

[FlasherZ]

I don't know how accurate my calcs are though they certainly pass the smell test. Maybe someone else a little more versed with this can weigh in...

I just use the Tesla supplied numbers of 62/31 rMPH for 20 kW / 10 kW respectively, makes it easier than messing with the efficiency fudge factor,so:

(VxA)/10000*31

One question I've been unable to determine with precision is whether the 31 is figured at 240V (9.6 kW) or 250V (10 kW), but it'll be close enough.

 

[dsm363]

I don't think that's right at all, though I appreciate the effort. A 110 volt outlet takes about 65 hours. This a Level 2 charger at 240 volts.

I am no electricity expert, but I can google:

Electrical power (Watts) = current (amps) x voltage (volts) [current is like flow rate and voltage is like water pressure]

So, a normal plug is:

110 volts x 15 amps [at least mine are 15] = 1650 watts
So 85,000 kWt-h battery / 1,650 * 80% (charging efficiency which actually varies by amp due to heat losses but lets assume a flat 80) = 64 hours

NEMA 14-50 (and combining equations):
85,000 / (240 x 40 x 80%) = 11 hours

Bosch 15:
85,000 / (240 x 15 x 80%) = 30 hours

Bosch 30:
85,000 / (240 x 30 x 80%) = 15 hours

I don't know how accurate my calcs are though they certainly pass the smell test. Maybe someone else a little more versed with this can weigh in...

Two other people pointed this out already which is why I added the note to the post you quoted. What Tesla lists is 110V and the Bosch is 240V. The calculations look good.

 

[bellwilliam]

Charging Station / LCS-25, Level 2
ClipperCreek 25A is available for $595. and is of higher quality.

 

[ZestyChicken]

Charging Station / LCS-25, Level 2
ClipperCreek 25A is available for $595. and is of higher quality.

That does look nice, looks like it's actually 20 amps though. Would be:
85,000 / (240 x 20 x 80%) = 22 hours. 30 amps would be much better for an overnight charge.

Specs:
• Service Entrance: 208V to 240V, 60Hz – 25 Amp Circuit (20A continuous for charging), single phase, 2-wire, with
ground (L1, L2, and Ground)– Conduit and pigtail supplied
• 11” L x 4” W x 3” D (279mm L x 102mm W x 76mm D)
• Weight 9 lbs
• Operating Temperatures: -22°F to 122°F (-30°C to +50°C)
- Charge cord Length = 20 Feet.​

 

[jomo25]

That does look nice, looks like it's actually 20 amps though. Would be:
85,000 / (240 x 20 x 80%) = 22 hours. 30 amps would be much better for an overnight charge.

Specs:
• Service Entrance: 208V to 240V, 60Hz – 25 Amp Circuit (20A continuous for charging), single phase, 2-wire, with
ground (L1, L2, and Ground)– Conduit and pigtail supplied
• 11” L x 4” W x 3” D (279mm L x 102mm W x 76mm D)
• Weight 9 lbs
• Operating Temperatures: -22°F to 122°F (-30°C to +50°C)
- Charge cord Length = 20 Feet.​

22 hours if you are emptying your 85kwh fully every day. I have a 30A capable J1772. My daily commute is between 60 and 80 miles. I normally reduce my current on my overnight charge to 16A or 20A. And still get fully topped off several house before I go out inthe morning.

BT I do agree it would make sense to get a 30A min capable J1772 station if you go the J1772 route. Good ones can be had for as little as $699 or $750.

 

[ZestyChicken]

22 hours if you are emptying your 85kwh fully every day. I have a 30A capable J1772. My daily commute is between 60 and 80 miles. I normally reduce my current on my overnight charge to 16A or 20A. And still get fully topped off several house before I go out inthe morning.

BT I do agree it would make sense to get a 30A min capable J1772 station if you go the J1772 route. Good ones can be had for as little as $699 or $750.

What do you recommend?

As a side note - what use is the term "Level 2 Charger." All I really care about is amps and volts. They should probably just advertise the power (e.g. 7.2 KW) and be done with it. Amps, Volts, ?Levels? are all rather incomplete. You really need to know how quickly the damn thing will charge your car!

 

[jomo25]

What do you recommend?

As a side note - what use is the term "Level 2 Charger." All I really care about is amps and volts. They should probably just advertise the power (e.g. 7.2 KW) and be done with it. Amps, Volts, ?Levels? are all rather incomplete. You really need to know how quickly the damn thing will charge your car!

Can't comment on L1 or L2 naming. I know what it's supposed to mean. I see why the terminology exists. BT I agree it doesn't mean too much. Remember that L1 and L2 may be easier for non teck folks to understand. And not all cars will charge at the same rate withteck same power source so you can't use a 'miles per hour of charge' number universally.

Anyways, for your situation as described in your first post of this thread, I'd say the simplest is to. Have your mom install a 208-240V 14-50 outlet. Then she can continue to use her Volt cord and you can plug your UMC in. To use any L2 charger, its gonna have to have a new 208-240V source line anyways.

The main benefit of using a J1772 station would be to share one line between 2 cars. BT if you are only there occasionally and she is happy with her slower 110V rate of charge for the Volt, then just install a new 14-50 and plug in.

 

[ZestyChicken]

Can't comment on L1 or L2 naming. I know what it's supposed to mean. I see why the terminology exists. BT I agree it doesn't mean too much. Remember that L1 and L2 may be easier for non teck folks to understand. And not all cars will charge at the same rate withteck same power source so you can't use a 'miles per hour of charge' number universally.

Anyways, for your situation as described in your first post of this thread, I'd say the simplest is to. Have your mom install a 208-240V 14-50 outlet. Then she can continue to use her Volt cord and you can plug your UMC in. To use any L2 charger, its gonna have to have a new 208-240V source line anyways.

The main benefit of using a J1772 station would be to share one line between 2 cars. BT if you are only there occasionally and she is happy with her slower 110V rate of charge for the Volt, then just install a new 14-50 and plug in.

Yeah I'm coming to that conclusion slowly. I was considering having them install a NEMA 6-50 as it would be plug and play with most Level 2 chargers. However, I would think you would want the extra wire that a 14-50 would require to future-proof it.

NEMA 6-50 is hot-hot-ground where 14-50 is hot-hot-neutral-ground.

NEMA connector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jomo25]

Yes, actually, I have a 6-50. The GE Wattstation I have plugs into that. The station can be hard wired, but I opted for the 6-50, so that I would have the option to plug the UMC into it directly if I ever needed to. Max flexibility, and it would let me charge at a full 40A if I ever really needed to.

 

[cwerdna]

Looks like Bosch is private labeling these units from Delta....

Welcome to Delta Electronics, Inc. - EV Charging Solutions

Interesting. I had no idea that Delta even made EVSEs. I know of them for providing fans and power supplies to various (computer) OEMs, some pretty big.

 

[bellwilliam]

That does look nice, looks like it's actually 20 amps though. Would be:
85,000 / (240 x 20 x 80%) = 22 hours. 30 amps would be much better for an overnight charge.

Specs:
• Service Entrance: 208V to 240V, 60Hz – 25 Amp Circuit (20A continuous for charging), single phase, 2-wire, with
ground (L1, L2, and Ground)– Conduit and pigtail supplied
• 11” L x 4” W x 3” D (279mm L x 102mm W x 76mm D)
• Weight 9 lbs
• Operating Temperatures: -22°F to 122°F (-30°C to +50°C)
- Charge cord Length = 20 Feet.
​

but isn't this Bosch units charging at either 12 amps and 24 amps ? I thought the rated amps is for the circuit, so they always charge at 80% only ?

which means the Bosch 30 amps still take 18.5 hours ?