New door handle design

[aronth5]

At least I won't have to worry about this problem with the Model E:smile:

 

[rdrcrmatt]

A few weeks ago my passenger side door handles decided they needed a day off and stopped presenting at all. I had to open the door from the inside to let passengers in.

I called service that day and they added it to the list of things they were going to do a few days later when I dropped it off. The next day the handles started working again but the service center replaced all 4 anyway. Now the door takes longer to open than it used to when pulling the handle. I already had the gen2 handles that had about a 1/4" of movement.

Oh, and the passenger side decided to not open for about 2 minutes the other day.. I can't remember if we lock/unlocked it or if it just eventually opened.

Ugh.

 

[pilotSteve]

"I still contend these handles are overly complex for the intended purpose. I really wish Tesla had applied the engineering time to something I might have found more useful like parking sensors (from the start), blind spot alert, adaptive cruise or something like that. In fact, these other features are already on the market and would likely have been "plug-and-play" as opposed to the "from scratch" door handles."

@mknox, I agree with you 100%. I realized on Day 1 that this type of handles will not last and cause problems eventually and mine has similar kind of issues, opened by itself and cannot open the door while the handle is opened, etc. The oohs and aahs last about one week for me and I wish Tesla can focus on the valued features like you described.

Does that mean DeLorean-style gull wing doors are not going to be in the next rev? :biggrin:

 

[GDH]

Lambo doors would be sweet.

 

[chickensevil]

@mknox, I agree with you 100%. I realized on Day 1 that this type of handles will not last and cause problems eventually and mine has similar kind of issues, opened by itself and cannot open the door while the handle is opened, etc. The oohs and aahs last about one week for me and I wish Tesla can focus on the valued features like you described.

It wasn't just an ooh and aah effect, it was to reduce drag and improve range. It is the same thing with how they wanted to drop the side mirrors for cameras on the X. It is in the name of increasing your range without actually getting a better battery. The S has a REALLY low drag ratio. the handles really help this. Doesn't seem like much... but every little bit helps.

 

[mknox]

It wasn't just an ooh and aah effect, it was to reduce drag and improve range. It is the same thing with how they wanted to drop the side mirrors for cameras on the X. It is in the name of increasing your range without actually getting a better battery. The S has a REALLY low drag ratio. the handles really help this. Doesn't seem like much... but every little bit helps.

I still contend there are simpler mechanisms to achieve the same result. Here is how Cadillac did it on the CTS Coupe:

 

[chickensevil]

I still contend there are simpler mechanisms to achieve the same result. Here is how Cadillac did it on the CTS Coupe:

View attachment 40289

Im sorry, does that one piece fold in? I assume so, but if not that "hole" in the side would still cause drag. I mean all of these are better than the alternative which was no handles at all. Makers have done that for years going back at least to 92 with the first Viper (I wouldn't be surprised if it goes farther). This was a neat idea, and I figured there would be issues, as long as they work to improve it, as with any technology they will figure out a better way through more trial and error.

 

[mknox]

Im sorry, does that one piece fold in? I assume so, but if not that "hole" in the side would still cause drag.

I'd be willing to sacrifice the 50 or 100 feet of range that the tiny bit of aerodynamic drag from "conventional" door handles would result in not to have constant issues with what I think is an overly complex system. I know Tesla touts the whole aerodynamic thing with these handles, but I've never actually seen any numbers compared to conventional designs and the resulting efficiency loss. I'd bet it's below the level of detection.

 

[ecarfan]

I'd be willing to sacrifice the 50 or 100 feet of range that the tiny bit of aerodynamic drag from "conventional" door handles would result in not to have constant issues with what I think is an overly complex system. I know Tesla touts the whole aerodynamic thing with these handles, but I've never actually seen any numbers compared to conventional designs and the resulting efficiency loss. I'd bet it's below the level of detection.

I agree the gain is probably small, and doubt that it has been objectively measured . I have had no problems with my handles and I suspect the cast majority of owners have had the same experience. I just think they are extremely cool. ;-)

 

[epley]

I like the flat door handles. They look cool and consistently wow others when you show them. Tesla will eventually work out the glitches with them. Remember, nobody's ever done this before.

 

[ken830]

I still contend there are simpler mechanisms to achieve the same result. Here is how Cadillac did it on the CTS Coupe:

View attachment 40289

That won't work for front doors of a sedan.

 

[mknox]

That won't work for front doors of a sedan.

How about these non-electric Aston Martin handles:

 

[ken830]

How about these non-electric Aston Martin handles:

I tried to find a video of them in operation, but failed. How do those work? Do you need two hands? or can you press in with your thumb while grabbing the handle with your other fingers? which way do they swing out? Can I open use my left-hand for the driver-side doors and right-hand for the passenger-side doors?

I think the Model S handles are a little overly complex, but also very, very cool.

 

[chickensevil]

I'd be willing to sacrifice the 50 or 100 feet of range that the tiny bit of aerodynamic drag from "conventional" door handles would result in not to have constant issues with what I think is an overly complex system. I know Tesla touts the whole aerodynamic thing with these handles, but I've never actually seen any numbers compared to conventional designs and the resulting efficiency loss. I'd bet it's below the level of detection.

Just look at car handles in general if you think it is "nothing". Back in the day handles (as well as the cars themselves, but handles too) stuck out like the S does when extended, and were very sharp edges. Now you look at any car and it is all very "smooth". Why would they "smooth" the handles to reduce drag if it wasn't significant? According to Tesla the drag coefficient is .24, which is one of the lowest of any production vehicle ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

From the link here are the ones that beat the Model S:

0.24	Mercedes-Benz S-Class[SUP][98][/SUP]	2014–Present
0.24	Tesla Model S Manufacturers estimate	2012[SUP][99][/SUP]
0.22	Mercedes-Benz CLA	2013–Present
0.212 (according to some sources 1:5)[SUP][100][/SUP][SUP][101][/SUP]	Tatra T77A	1935[SUP][102][/SUP][SUP][103][/SUP] [SUP][104][/SUP] [SUP][105][/SUP]
0.195	General Motors EV1	1996
0.189	Volkswagen XL1	2013

Among the things that help this car out, flat bottom (all those mechanical parts under ICE cars really mess that stuff up), no front grille, and no handles sticking out. Again, this is why I mentioned it in the first place because they are not the first to try to completely "remove" the handles or hide them away. The other big kicker will be finally getting approval to ditch the side mirrors.

Consider this: NASCAR has no headlights, door handles, mirrors, front grille, etc... if it didn't matter (Or matter enough to make a difference) why would a race car have it (or rather not have it)?

 

[JohnQ]

...
Consider this: NASCAR has no headlights, door handles, mirrors, front grille, etc... if it didn't matter (Or matter enough to make a difference) why would a race car have it (or rather not have it)?

Because the impact of each of those items is far more significant at 200mph than 65mph. Not disagreeing with you, just noting that the effort to reduce drag depends on the purpose of the vehicle.

Of course, it could also be that they don't want to introduce unnecessary weight or complexity.

 

[Doug_G]

I noticed the loaner I just had was a bit different, in that there was a noticeable delay after you pulled on the handle before the door opened. I just had one handle replaced again, but it doesn't have the extra delay; it behaves like the other three handles.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I remember twenty plus years ago when everyone decried power windows as unnecessary complexity and just something else to break. And initially they were right. But now twenty years later you'd be hard pressed to find a car without them, and in twenty years I've never had one fail.

I'm hoping the door handles in the Model S end up benefitting from power window motor advancement and end up being as reliable as they are now.

 

[Vger]

I noticed the loaner I just had was a bit different, in that there was a noticeable delay after you pulled on the handle before the door opened. I just had one handle replaced again, but it doesn't have the extra delay; it behaves like the other three handles.

We had ALL of ours replaced at once (Tesla's choice) when our left-side rear door started popping open on its own. I do now notice the delay you speak of. Perhaps there is a calibration issue, and your new ones were better "tuned."

 

[Doug_G]

We had ALL of ours replaced at once (Tesla's choice) when our left-side rear door started popping open on its own. I do now notice the delay you speak of. Perhaps there is a calibration issue, and your new ones were better "tuned."

Or maybe you have a different version? Hard to say. I only had one replaced this time, and it behaves just like the others.

If my count is correct, I've had 8 handle replacements. When the car was new I had two doors popping open on their own, and the drivers' door handle was badly corroding (bad coating?). Then I had a door handle that would either fail to retract or fail to open. At service they replaced it, but when they went to deliver the car two more failed to extend so they went ahead and replaced all of them. Then I had a door handle that was occasionally balky about opening, and last month it got stuck in the fully extended position for a week, but retracted two days before my service appointment. They replaced it anyway.

I've seen the mechanism and it looks well designed, so I'm not sure why all the trouble. Hopefully they've got it sorted this time.

 

[chickensevil]

Because the impact of each of those items is far more significant at 200mph than 65mph. Not disagreeing with you, just noting that the effort to reduce drag depends on the purpose of the vehicle.

Of course, it could also be that they don't want to introduce unnecessary weight or complexity.

Given that they mention windshield wipers specifically as something to change the design of the car in order to help reduce drag, I would assume that door handles would be just as impacting. It should also be noted that the Drag Coefficient changes depending on speed, so you would want the lowest possible drag based on the speed at which you primarily plan to travel. I am going to guess that for your average "street car" they base this on 55MPH.

Higher drag demands the car to work harder to maintain speed. Stick your hand out the window at 10MPH and at 60MPH. Which is harder for your hand to hold it steady? While I don't think that the handles are the end all that is going to ruin the drag of the car, but it all adds up. Were there other routes they could have gone to reduce the drag? sure. But they were also very much going for the "cool factor" at the same time. Because cool cars sell better. If they made their car look like the hideous Nissan Leaf, I doubt as many would be interested in the car.