New Energy Price Guarantee

[PITA]

According to Ofgem, the average household in the UK has 2.4 people living in it, and uses 8 kWh of electricity and 33 kWh of gas respectively, per day.

This works out as an average of 242 kWh of electricity and 1,000 kWh of gas per month, or 2,900 kWh of electricity and 12,000 kWh of gas each year.

The Electric Price Cap as of July 2022 is 28p x 2900 kWh = £812 plus £164.25 Standing Charge. Sub Total for Electric is £ 976.25

The Gas Price Cap as of July 2022 is 7p x 12000 kWh = £840 plus £98.55 Standing Charge. Sub Total for Gas is £ 938.55

Total for both is £1,914.80 per year.

That's how they work out the 'average' duel-fuel pricing.

 

[PITA]

So as an example... the UK Average Household uses 2,900 kWh per year.

Our house uses 18,000 kWh per year.

My Electric bill should be something like £1750 per month at the April 23 OFGEM Price Cap... but it isn't, thanks to Smart Meter Tariffs, Solar, Battery Storage and 3 Phase capability... and now Liz Truss Government Price Guarantee energy price shield.

So 'average' I'm not... but I've always known that

Where this Government Price Guarantee works for me, is Gas usage. We still have a Gas Central Heating system, running alongside our Heat Pump. So that now is still a viable option should we need to use it.

 

[DeejUK]

thanks to Smart Meter Tariffs, Solar, Battery Storage and 3 Phase capability

I'm so, so envious. We've got a self-build project that's years late starting, where we have all these things and more planned! In the meantime, I'll keep paying Ecotricity £350/month.

 

[Jason71]

So 'average' I'm not... but I've always known that

Finally something we agree on!

 

[IXIXI]

Forgive me for posting here but the thread is interesting to me. Biden’s ill named Climate Bill recently passed in the US (with no climate provisions…) raised EV prices for Ford and GM by $7500US almost overnight. While stated as a $7500 tax break there was an amazing almost overnight price increase for upcoming EV models of a similar amount. It’s hard not to feel like there was some back room haggling and agreements to use taxes as a direct cash infusion into what amounts to union controlled car companies. With the apparent similarity to the household energy program by Truss and eminent cash transfer to power companies its hard not to feel a little suspicious.

For the record: I live in Alabama. Average monthly cost with house and overnight charge of MX is $437/mos.

 

[DoricJim]

Forgive me for posting here but the thread is interesting to me. Biden’s ill named Climate Bill recently passed in the US (with no climate provisions…) raised EV prices for Ford and GM by $7500US almost overnight. While stated as a $7500 tax break there was an amazing almost overnight price increase for upcoming EV models of a similar amount. It’s hard not to feel like there was some back room haggling and agreements to use taxes as a direct cash infusion into what amounts to union controlled car companies. With the apparent similarity to the household energy program by Truss and eminent cash transfer to power companies its hard not to feel a little suspicious.

For the record: I live in Alabama. Average monthly cost with house and overnight charge of MX is $437/mos.

Totally different scenario as our domestic energy prices are capped by an “independent” regulator based on global energy market prices at 4 different time points a year. I.e the companies can’t just ramp up prices to take advantage of the government loans to cap prices.

So, the capped price is not the whim of whatever a private utility* or car manufacturer like Ford in your example want to charge you retail for an EV.

More at the whim of Vlad unfortunately

 

[PITA]

Totally different scenario as our domestic energy prices are capped by an “independent” regulator based on global energy market prices at 4 different time points a year. I.e the companies can’t just ramp up prices to take advantage of the government loans to cap prices.

So, the capped price is not the whim of whatever a private utility* or car manufacturer like Ford in your example want to charge you retail for an EV.

More at the whim of Vlad unfortunately

Totally wrong.

1) The Oil & Gas producers can charge whatever they like. They are not regulated.

2) OFGEM can only regulate the Energy Suppliers (who buy from the Oil & Gas Producers)... these guys we're going bust last year because of this regulation.

3) Government Price Guarantee supports the Oil & Gas Suppliers to charge whatever they like, in fact the Government is overruling OFGEM to some degree.

OFGEM now can only continue to issue 3 month 'price cap' calculations so that the Government know how much they have to pay the Oil & Gas Companies, plus the Energy Companies directly. Building up massive financial debt... which we the consumers have to repay.

There is no control !!

The whole thing stinks.

 

[cliff harris]

FWIW a solar farm in the UK costs about £1m / MW/ If we are going to borrow £100billion we could build 100GW of solar power for the same price.
And thats assuming no economies of scale.

 

[GRiLLA]

According to Ofgem, the average household in the UK has 2.4 people living in it, and uses 8 kWh of electricity and 33 kWh of gas respectively, per day.

This works out as an average of 242 kWh of electricity and 1,000 kWh of gas per month, or 2,900 kWh of electricity and 12,000 kWh of gas each year.

The Electric Price Cap as of July 2022 is 28p x 2900 kWh = £812 plus £164.25 Standing Charge. Sub Total for Electric is £ 976.25

The Gas Price Cap as of July 2022 is 7p x 12000 kWh = £840 plus £98.55 Standing Charge. Sub Total for Gas is £ 938.55

Total for both is £1,914.80 per year.

That's how they work out the 'average' duel-fuel pricing.

Not the question, working forward from the unit pricing is easy, working backwards from this value to something you can use to apply to your own life is impossible.

I like the idea of 'duel-fuel pricing' though, if I draw first then I don't need to pay.

 

[DoricJim]

Totally wrong.

1) The Oil & Gas producers can charge whatever they like. They are not regulated.

2) OFGEM can only regulate the Energy Suppliers (who buy from the Oil & Gas Producers)... these guys we're going bust last year because of this regulation.

3) Government Price Guarantee supports the Oil & Gas Suppliers to charge whatever they like, in fact the Government is overruling OFGEM to some degree.

OFGEM now can only continue to issue 3 month 'price cap' calculations so that the Government know how much they have to pay the Oil & Gas Companies, plus the Energy Companies directly. Building up massive financial debt... which we the consumers have to repay.

There is no control !!

The whole thing stinks.

Err on point 1) the price of gas is regulated by GLOBAL supply and demand so you are wrong. If they can’t sell for a certain price then they will have to reduce it. At least for now. Unless of course we get into a crazy situation where the high prices become acceptable and we can’t wean ourselves off gas, continued panic etc.

The point our US forum colleague was making is that ev manufacturers hiked prices overnight to absorb the government green energy payment to make profit.

I do agree it stinks that electric prices are pegged to global gas wholesale price…

 

[PITA]

Err on point 1) the price of gas is regulated by GLOBAL supply and demand so you are wrong. If they can’t sell for a certain price then they will have to reduce it. At least for now. Unless of course we get into a crazy situation where the high prices become acceptable and we can’t wean ourselves off gas, continued panic etc.

The point our US forum colleague was making is that ev manufacturers hiked prices overnight to absorb the government green energy payment to make profit.

I do agree it stinks that electric prices are pegged to global gas wholesale price…

Think you need to go and learn what the word 'regulated' means. Then reconsider who is wrong.

QED

 

[gangzoom]

Forget Tesla shares, we should all go and buy Shell/BP with our new PM ultra keen on lowering taxes, expanding oil/gas production etc.

Cut in higher rate tax bands also seem to be coming, so we wouldn't even have to pay that much tax on share profits. Lots of people will be very happy with our new PMs direction of travel, and some people are going to get alot richer thanks to the taxpayer and PM.

 

[gangzoom]

keeps middle classes comfortable and the wealthy most wealthy.

Actually the last bit should say 'wealth wealthier'.

Our PM isn't shy about her view of the world. Essentially if you have the skills and ability to earn lots, the government should encourage you, not take away the financial 'rewards' for hard work.

Am in 2 minds, let's face it we are all 'not poor' to own a Tesla, the PMs new policies actually will likely put more money into our bank accounts, who doesn't want to have more take home pay???

The issue is ofocurse where the money comes from, but no on cared one bit about every country in the world bailling out the banks a few years ago, so what's different this time??

We don't live in communist society. I suspect even those on minimal wage in the UK would take up arms to stop a communist from been PM - JC is about as close it got. So the PMs policies are actually pretty in keeping with how the world works. She is just not sugar coating it.

 

[DoricJim]

Think you need to go and learn what the word 'regulated' means. Then reconsider who is wrong.

QED

Alright I’ll give you that, had a skin full when I replied should have written driven by supply and demand.

 

[Dilly]

It will be interesting to see what effect if any this has on Octopus Go where the peak rate is higher than the ‘cap’
One can of course jump ship from it at any time.

 

[PITA]

It will be interesting to see what effect if any this has on Octopus Go where the peak rate is higher than the ‘cap’
One can of course jump ship from it at any time.

I'm also interested to see what the Standing Charges will be set at...

 

[Dilly]

I'm also interested to see what the Standing Charges will be set at...

Standing charge will be enough to make you want to sit down

 

[Skie]

Actually the last bit should say 'wealth wealthier'.

Our PM isn't shy about her view of the world. Essentially if you have the skills and ability to earn lots, the government should encourage you, not take away the financial 'rewards' for hard work.

Am in 2 minds, let's face it we are all 'not poor' to own a Tesla, the PMs new policies actually will likely put more money into our bank accounts, who doesn't want to have more take home pay???

The issue is ofocurse where the money comes from, but no on cared one bit about every country in the world bailling out the banks a few years ago, so what's different this time??

We don't live in communist society. I suspect even those on minimal wage in the UK would take up arms to stop a communist from been PM - JC is about as close it got. So the PMs policies are actually pretty in keeping with how the world works. She is just not sugar coating it.

All good and well lowering taxes but after Austerity and covid, public services are on their backsides. The 91k headcount reduction is just an ideological thing because tories don’t like public sector workers, if they actually cared about reducing spending they’d invest in it, not cut staff who will only be replaced by consultants at a cost of £1k a day.

The next time you bemoan the state of the roads consider that Amazon and every business gets to exist because the roads are there, their staff have healthcare and an education, all provided for by taxes they do their best at avoiding. The quality of life of everyone in the UK could be significantly better if those benefiting the most actually paid their way.

 

[Cantonalegod]

Bear in mind that if you are on a fixed rate at the moment the new price policy is apparantly actually a discount of 17p per KWh of electric, and 4p per KWh of gas.

As I understand this also applies to fixed tariffs.

Don't make any rash decisions to come off your fix immediately without doing the calculations.

 

[Jason71]

Bear in mind that if you are on a fixed rate at the moment the new price policy is apparantly actually a discount of 17p per KWh of electric, and 4p per KWh of gas.

As I understand this also applies to fixed tariffs.

Don't make any rash decisions to come off your fix immediately without doing the calculations.

I am lucky enough to be on Go Faster paying 13.7/5p for another 6 months. So does that mean they will be pay me for every kwh i use?